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In Reply to: RE: Mine are the ones pictured above... posted by Ivan303 on September 10, 2016 at 10:58:50
What a beauty!! I remember them from another site. That would be the Titan 1 correct? What do you have driving them? and how do you like it?
Follow Ups:
Titan II might be the straight horn version while Titan I may have been the folded horns that I have?Using DIY HI-FI supply 300B kit amps with mostly better parts and the US(Kansas) made WE re-issue tubes from Charlie Whitner in the mid 2000's.
All other tube NOS including GZ-34 rectifiers and National Union 6SL7's.
Still, needs steeper x-over in the 500Hz region.
Edits: 09/10/16
Try the 4th order - it worked well in my system.
I had a pair then went back to the straight horn version.
Not using them now but my system is still Edgar architecture but different horns.
I have found that you should use something like REW and see where your woofers are acoustically crossing over. I found that the expected choke value was too low (2.5 mH) and I got a better looking curve and sound when the choke was larger. In my case this was 4 mH. But using a different driver. I had started with the typical value, which is what I used with the Edgar. How a driver is loaded by the horn and the room can make a big difference in impedance. I bet the EV's have a much larger impedance than the 2.5 mH choke was based upon but likely not as great a jump as the horns I am using which have a much smaller throat than the Edgars.
My plan is to place a choke in series with the amps driving the below 500hz horn and gain some further attenuation. But for the moment the sound is very good.
Worth a try.
But I don't recall the number. Re-call he has them re-coned without the metal dust cover that they normally come with for guitar amps, etc.
Don''t recall if 8 or 16 ohm as I can't find the schematic of the system/x-over anymore. :-(
There was a version without the metal dust cap.
Mine were definitely not re-coned - though my cabinets were unfinished - not one he sold as RETAIL - maybe the folks who bought them READY TO GO got re-coned drivers.
I think this box is Romy Besnow's favorite of Edgar's sub 500 hz horns.
My room seemed to be a little too big for them. The giant straight horn I replaced them with went in the other direction. I do remember liking the character of the JBL 12 better than the EV. I got off-track when I brought up the EV before. I knew which driver you had but was trying to write/think quicker than I am actually able! Sorry for the confusion.
I spent many hours massaging those boxes. I smoothed all of the corners - coated the inside and out with many coats of shellac. I installed slots on both sides for sand damping. Whether any of that made them sound any better I have no idea but I HAD to do it!
They are good sounding.
You should consider getting the TRUEXTENT diaphragms. They were a big improvement. And the FANEs are just a stop gap. You might find you do not WANT them if you try the TRUEXTENTs. I am using the FOSTEX T500s but wonder how important they really are. One of those things where you just like knowing they are there.
Do try out REW - it is free though you will have to get a decent mixer and a microphone but it can tell you lots of interesting things.
Was it 8 Ohms?
Seem to recall that's the case.
My two bits re tweeters in Edgarhorn system - I agree that you can almost do without a tweeter. When I say almost I mean there may be a little more air there when you use a tweeter, but nothing really dramatic. Another point: we (Cy and I) compared A-B Fostex T500 and Fostex 925A (with 1.5 uF cap) and heard practically no difference between the two (with T500 costing almost twice as 925A)
No question, pure vanity drove me to purchase the T500s.
I figured this way, not matter what, it is done and I would not think about super tweeters again.
The price we pay for audio peace as Herb Eeichert would put it.
As I seem to recall the overall system sensitivity is 106dB (100dB woofer with a 6dB boost due to the horn?)
T90 is still better than the Fane but if you are going to bother to do it, I'd get the T925A, T900A or T500. I have had the T925A and T900A, both are a step up over the Fanes (which I also had). But lately I am just running a TAD-2002 crossed at about 5k as a tweeter.
also consider active bi-amping (line-level) with multiple amps. It's way easier to make XO changes that way, correct level mismatches, etc.
any experience with Fostex T845?
No, I've thought about buying Fostexes many times, have been granted return rights, yet have not pulled the trigger. Part of that is that I'm happy with what I'm listening to, and just feel like stopping and enjoying the music.
Do you have experience with different Fostex models?
We've seen how well that worked in the past! =:-0
Hey, just sayin' what worked best for me. ;-) Everyone here is just an enabler anyway, that's nothing new. And if you don't think you will get that 845 amp built someday, well, you know who to call about the iron and such. ;-)
best regards!
I dare say that most folks, including those writing above, have not heard a really well set up set of A7 and A5 speakers.First off, a tweeter is very easy to integrate as the acoustic rolloff of the mid horn + compression driver is close to 6db per octave, measured in situ, listening position of 8 feet.
Second, a lot of the drivers out there are beyond their prime and could use reconing / new diaphragms. Easily done, inexpensive.
Finally, most of the Altec crossovers don't sound great, never mind their age, which only adds to the problem.
The talk of needing to be far away from the speakers is the hardest thing for me to figure out, it must have to do with the overwhelming visual size
of the speakers because I often enjoy sitting 4 feet from them and hearing very realistic sound with great dynamics an immediacy. There have also been many studios over the decades that have used them in such close listening situations. There are so many bad drivers, creaky cabinets, crossovers with leaky capacitors, mismatched Voice of the Theatres out there that these must be one of the most misunderstood speakers in history. Couple that with a wide adjustment range on the crossovers, which don't attenuate the mid driver enough for most home situations, (easily rectified by padding the mid driver) and the typical description of the speakers is way off.Using the right drivers, in good condition, good crossovers that can properly adjust the balance of the drivers, supertweeters, the speakers can be very smooth, extremely detailed, yet in a natural way, put out very dynamic bass with good power down to the upper 40's (measured). None of the above is hard at all. They are my favorite speakers, and I own a pretty vast array of big name speakers, so this is not a "I own it so it is the best" post.
Edits: 09/22/16
I'm sure you could use it as well. It is smaller in size than 925A, couple dbs less efficient and can handle a little less power. It is also cheaper.
Bruce gave me a copy which I have somewhere with all of my other audio paperwork but the wife re-organized and took over the office a few years ago when I retired.
Have no idea where anything is anymore. :-(
most likely 1st order...
parallel with the 2441 to knock it down 3dB to match the mid base. Just a series coil on the 12 inch in the folded bass bin but wired 180 deg out of phase with the mid horn.
My copy of the schematic had all of the drivers and wiring labeled and with it I would not have to pull things apart in order to decide what changes I might want to make.
Might have to order that Titanium Philips screw driver after all. ;-).
Edgar must have had a bunch of 40 uF caps.
One only needs half as much capacitance for a 16 ohms driver compared to an eight ohms driver. If one decides to use other caps remove the parallel and use 20 uF, though these are nominal values. You still shoudl use REW and see what you speakers are really doing in your room.
He used to specify a coil made by ELECTRA PRINT for the sub-500 hz woofer, 2.5 mH.
in parallel with the 2441 was to knock it down 3 dB and make an 8 ohm driver out of it to match the woofer?
Anyway, yes it's an EI core inductor on the mid bass driver and 2.5 mH seems to ring a bell. Been 10 years since I even though about it.
Anyone remember the nomenclature of the 12 inch JBL guitar amp driver he used for the mid-bass horn?
Found the x-over drawn by Bruce at RMAF quite a few years ago...
40uf cap then series 4 Ohm then TWO resistor parallel of 2441, a 8 Ohm and 15 Ohm.
So the 40uf cap sees about an 8 ohm driver and I'm guessing this drops the 111dB driver(with horn) down to about 106dB or close to the mid-bass bin?
Yes, it's still 2.5 mH and Jack at Electra print still makes the best iron there is.
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