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In Reply to: RE: Onken Suggestions posted by JazzGuy39 on January 11, 2016 at 22:53:51
I would build a classical TAD monitor (15" bass reflex + 2" driver into a 300Hz horn), I didn't like onkens ... very far from being 'tight' and 'fast', sure they go lower than a standard bass reflex but you don't need those extra Hz.haem ... I didn't like multi cell horns, but that is just me.
24db/oct @ 600Hz possibly biamped (assuming you for a 2" driver).
Edits: 01/12/16Follow Ups:
I really want to stick with a 1" TAD 2002 because I have heard those on the small Cessaro horns as a two way and they are AMAZING when done right. Which wood horn would sound best with that driver?
How deep will a bass reflex go and what would the sensitivity be? One issue is the TD-2002 has 110db efficiency so I need an enclosure that will get the woofer well above 100db I would think? I'm sure I can dampen the 2002 down via the crossover but the goal is to have a horn with over 100db overall efficiency.
Thanks
Use multicells if you want to be part of the music rather then listen to it. less front to back. Freedom to move around and share also. way more room dependant I would think. Big room high ceilings needed.
I saw those on eBay. Just because they look nice doesn't mean they will sound good. Finding the right pair of multicells may be difficult. I think bad multicells give all them a bad name. If you try them please give some feedback on them. I am not sure wood is the best material for multicells the original tar filled metal ones might be better. I do wonder if wood is a little too soft for them and might absorb to much.
If your father is a good woodworker maybe Yuichi Radial Horns might be the go as the japanese guy(Yuchi) that made these offers the plans to diy and are well respected and made for tads. if you search here you will find out about cogent and conicals. So many options good luck.
would you include Altec 203B in that recommendation ?
Karlson Evangelist
Ok, now I am pretty confused haha.
The pair of speakers that really got me excited about the whole idea originally were made by a HiFi company in NZ called Parmeter Sound. However, I cant afford to pay $40K for them!
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5021#&gid=1&pid=29
From what I can see he is using a TAD 1601a with a TAD 4001 driver and a custom passive crossover for claimed frequency response down to 28hz and overall 102db efficiency. He's using ultra expensive Duelund cast capacitors (that's like $3-4K in parts right there!) in the passive crossovers but other than that I think I can do something comparable within my budget.
I gather from people's responses here that the A7 is a far better choice but even the biggest A7 cabinet taps out at 40hz, which is a bit less than I would like. Also, would the 2" 4001 driver be a better choice vs a 2001 or 2002 driver? The 600hz crossover point may help a bit vs. the 800hz minimum for the 2001/2002. The 4001s can also be had much cheaper but I don't know how they compare sonically vs the 2001/2002 which I know sound excellent.
http://tad-labs.com/en/professional/unitspeaker/unit2.html
as TomServo mentioned above, you could save money over TAD with a BMS4550. If you want 30Hz and are willing to accept EQ then some woofers set for 40Hz alignment could be tuned a half octave lower and would allow a 6th order bass-reflex alignment with an underdamped 2nd order highpass or parametric bump centered around 1.03* tuning. In an Onken type or reflex with an even amount of vents, this would mean half of the vent area would be blocked. That type vent might be deep enough so one would not want the back of the vent open and front closed as could inadvertently create a resonator. If you were using only digital then probably there's a media player with fine enough graphic EQ to get the needed boost.
Karlson Evangelist
do you think you could get results nearly as good as the TAD with say a B&C or BMS driver? are you thinking of using a 511 if going with A7?
some KBG capacitors would save money too and probably make things sound pretty good.
it gets confusing - what I wanted to know was if an Altec 2-cell horn gets lumped into the characteristics of "multicell"
I generally prefer Karlsons to horn systems for punch vs size but like various approaches.
seems like an A7 would be somewhat "mid centric" in balance - ?
here's 203B - I've got a pair plus some 291 (?) somewhere needing diaphragms - I can barely remember what a 203 sounded like on top of a Peavey FH1 - think it made it to ~6K
Karlson Evangelist
Hey Freddyi!
I had most of the Altec multicellular models years ago as well as a smattering of the original Lansngs, and the 203Bs were my favorites when driven by 288s. Great 300 Hz. loading plus narrow pattern, ideal for living room listening. There is the moderate coloration of an exponential horn, but huge dynamics and excellent imaging. I have several of them stored away and should give them another listen!
I do have 2001 and love it. it can go down to 1k, maybe 800Hz ... below that would probably be too much of a stretch. A 15" can go up to 600Hz and even 1kHz but it doesn't sound there that good to me.
I believe 15" + 1" would be suboptimal, you can certainly try and add a 2" later on. Probably you can reach 40Hz or 35Hz with a bigger bass reflex and the proper woofer but forget about 100dB down there.
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