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In Reply to: RE: SET? Some alternatives of lower cost. posted by Timbo in Oz on November 11, 2015 at 15:59:27
Hey, Timbo!
Where to start...the factory says it's a backloaded horn. When setting them up, I looked at the bottom of the cabinet and it's completely open. It appears to be the mouth of a labyrinth that the woofer backwave fires into, so the horn fires downward rather than to the front or back. That would seem to be the reason for the bases and standoffs.
I've detected no coloration issues whatsoever. They're the most natural sounding speakers I've ever heard. I used to think my Martin Logans had a holographic soundstage, and they did to a large degree, but in retrospect, everything was larger than life, and they weren't remotely close to the Odeons on any other front. Instruments just sound real to me, so I don't feel that I'm listening to my stereo any more. I'm just listening to music.
I've had some communication with the factory, and they recommend +/- 10 WPCH. In triode mode the VACs produce 30 WPCH, so they're a bit much for these.
Incidentally, I had heard these were 98 dB efficient. The factory says 96. Crossover at 1.8 KHz.
I'll certainly try the 4 ohm taps on the VACS. It costs nothing to do so, and who knows? I've tried the VACs on the 8 ohm taps, and the gain is excessive. That could also be the preamp, of course, but it's obvious that some changes are afoot. It will be worth it, although it's going to take a while. I'm currently using the Wave 8s, and they sound better than they have a right to, although I'm looking forward to improvements in transparency down the road with different amplification.
Follow Ups:
I am also struggling a bit with gain...as in having too much becuase they are several db more sensitive than my previous speakers. Only 96 and not 98 db? Oh well...not a big difference really.
I am driving mine with the following amps:
Wall Audio Opus 50 PSET amps (2 x 6C33C per monoblock): about 35 watts
JJ 322 PSET (2 x 300B per channel): about 20 watts
PureSound A30 (2 X 6550 per channel): about 18 watts in triode mode
The gain of the two SETs are too high when I connect with an active preamp so I barely crack the volume control most of the time. With some preamps I had big trouble with noise and hum.
At the moment I am playing with the Wall Audio Opus 88 preamp as a "final" preamp. I will be considering others as well before I decide. I also have a PureSound L10 preamp that I am not terribly happy with but I think putting in new output transformers could make it a winner.
Morricab, forgive me for asking, but what happened to the L10? Has it broken down in some way? Or have you fallen out of love with it? I thought it was supposed to be a good performer?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Good question...I have mixed feelings about this preamp. One the one hand it is dynamic and quite palpable for solo instruments. Reasonably transparent with good rich bass. BUT, the soundstage was not so clear and instruments in the background get somewhat smudged together. I upgraded all the caps in the power supply and that helped a tiny bit but what i think is really holding it back are the output transformers. SO, I will be upgrading them with some Lundahl units to see where that gets me. If that works then it could be totally killer...or not.
I have been playing around now with a Wall Audio Opus 88 (matches with my Wall Audio Opus 50 monos) and it has a truly great linestage in it. Totally transparent, dynamic soundstage. bass etc. All valve rectified and regualted. The phonostage is where I am less sure about the preamp. It is very clear and explicit...especially for a tube phonostage. However, my Silvaweld phono is an amazing machine and it is giving the phono built into the Wall preamp a tough time. It seems to have more inner spark than the Wall. A bit less explicit but seemingly wider dynamic range overall.
I will hopefully be trying some others to see if I can better the Wall for my budget, which won't be easy, but I really don't want to sell off my Silvaweld unless I am sure the other preamp's phono can equal it.
If the lundahl transformer upgrade "transforms" the L10 then it is a moot point and I have my preamp.
I think your tastes in preamps aren't too dissimilar to mine, so it's useful to now your experience with the L10. I had my eye on the L300, bought direct from the OEM through a friend in Asia, but was aware that it is hard to be certain what quality of transformer one would be ordering. This is the whole Bewitch/OEM issue at play, perhaps.
Do you think the Opus 88 phono stage could be tuned with tube rolling? It reminds me of some of the design ideas in my present Audio Innovations L2 and P2.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
It can be tuned by rolling. I replaced some new JJ tubes in one stage of it with some other new tubes (ElectroHarmonix) and it was a distinct improvement. One might think then that good NOS will bring it even further.
At least from the pictures the output transformer looks the same in the L10 and L300; however, the measurements I have seen of both indicate that the L300 has a wider bandwidth...the output tubes are different so perhaps if it is the same trafo the matching with the tube is better.
I will do a more in-depth investigation with the Wall next year for a review I am planning.
For a long-term game plan, perhaps a passive TVC with dual preamp outs into something like a pair of Decware SETs. Rather than bridging them, I'd be inclined to try using one on the woofers and the other on the spherical horns. The problem there is needing a third set of preamp outs to feed the subs.This is obviously down the road. The VACs might work significantly better if I had a preamp with no gain, but that's not available right now.
Edits: 11/12/15
I haven't found a passive yet that really outperforms a good active tube preamp...but I guess it is possible...
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