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In Reply to: RE: Large Tannoy DCs on OB? posted by PaulF70 on September 10, 2015 at 18:36:08
No doubt what bass is there has a nice quality, depends what your goals are and the QTS of the speaker.
Open baffles have two sound fronts exposed to the room, reflections off of the back definitely add ambiance that compliments acoustic instruments, but HiFi it is not.
It is artificial fat.
Again, I can't speak for the Tannoy's, but it my case, it is hard enough to achieve the slam I have now, it would seem to be a misuse of the speaker to give up any of that tactile magic in the lower registers.
I guess you will just have to try it, I'm not having any luck pulling up a basic frequency vs baffle width chart to make a quick guesstimate, but one thing that is for sure is that it will need to be huge. (For Hifi)
One thing I considered was to build a wall 2' in front of the existing wall to create an infinite baffle, or running angled baffles from floor to ceiling in the corners, again simulating an infinite baffle that is like a soffit mount.
Ultimately settled on my 16 cubic 50/40 vented cabinets that tuck into the corner, mimicking a soffit mount and somewhat approaching infinite baffle.
(I played around with open baffles before to which I was able to extrapolate that experience and chose not open baffler the duplex.)
Now on the other hand, if one was going to use a separate woofer, then a 8"- 12" mid range might yield a more practical sized baffle, but then you wouldn't need or get to enjoy what the 15" is capable of.
IMO even acoustical instruments greatly benefit from quality low bass, it makes it sound more dynamic, without it, you're missing that little extra umph on acoustic bass notes and kick drums that make it feel more "live".
Suit yourself these are just my opinions, ultimately I had to buy my lunch.
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
Follow Ups:
This post is the essence of an exact truth !!
Therefor, will not be treated kindly by some of the mysticism members !!
I really don't agree with your generalizations. I've owned many examples of virtually every type of speaker.
To say that OBs are not "hifi" because they have rear reflections is quite silly. Of course, OBs have more controlled dispersion than anything other than front horns - they are more, er, "hifi" for that reason. Are boxed speakers not "hifi" because they have the sidewall reflections that OBs lack?
Furthermore, in the bass, no speaker is really just a speaker - the speaker + the room is the speaker. But, again, OBs have *less* room interaction generally than anything other than front horns.
Every speaker platform involves very real trade offs. There is no perfect speaker - nothing even close, actually. The lack of box resonances and lack of side reflections of the open baffle platform are actually substantial plusses that can get you not only "hifi", but a very good facsimile of live acoustic music (my goal; live jazz is my reference).
As for the bottom octave, that's what subs are for.
Cheers,
Paul
If you say so.
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
"If I say so", which part? Please correct me if I'm wrong. This is just a hobby and I want to have only correct knowledge about it.
I'm pretty sure that what I said regarding dispersion, power response, and room interaction is accurate.
Well, I thought I was in a minority with my campaign against open baffles.
I think I still am, but once in a while, someone like Mr. Garg0yle
will come along and expose the ugly truth. As per Beranek, any attempt
to divulge facts against the use of an open baffle for any thing resembling bass, will result in varying degrees of hostility.
This dive into an open baffle design is a typical myth following, gone rampant, never before seen except maybe the likes of Tulip Bulb Mania.
"Your fooling yourself if you don't believe it".
It's not hi-fidelity, it is indeed mysticism.
Mysticism often sells good.
Then again, I have recently discovered, most audiophile are really nice guys; very few of them can actually hear.
Hopefully, you are young... to parade such arrogance...interests "young women etc, etc, etc. A non eclectic list of interests.
Perhaps, you could research AND listen more and quite possibly,
Learn,
that taste varies and every choice beset with compromise.
Let us hope your ego will diminish in order to allow compromise for the present "set in stone" thoughts you faun over.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
LOL!
I have no idea what you're talking about. These speakers measure remarkably flat in-room from 50-14K cycles with the exception of a mid-bass hump that really, frankly, is not too bad and certainly doesn't *sound* it.
(BTW - these are shaped and radiate just like Quad 57s - there is a reason they are a classic.)
I think you may spend too much time with spreadsheets and not enough thinking about room interaction and psychoacoustics, but whatever. Enjoy whatever speakers sound good to you.
"These speakers measure remarkably flat in-room from 50-14K cycles with the exception of a mid-bass hump that really, frankly, is not too bad and certainly doesn't *sound* it"
Since you have the measurement, it would be good if you would show the measurement and the measurement conditions and details.
:)
I do measurements with pink noise & a Rat Shack meter with adjustments made for its non-linearities. It is good enough; it easily reveals speakers with marked frequency response aberrations (i.e., the vast majority of widebander or widebander-based speakers which have not just peaks but a progressively rising response and/or a big shelf in the 1.5-3K region - things that we *hear* quite readily).
The great thing about the Altec/GPA driver (with a good xover, that is) is that it doesn't suffer from such defects yet is still extremely efficient - an honest 100 dB/W with quite flat eight-ohm-nominal impedance.
Putting the driver on an OB doesn't affect that quality, of course. Below 100 Hz or so, the room has as much or more effect on response as the speaker. Then there is the floor-bounce effect. What do the spreadsheets say when these are taken into account? These speakers put out realistic amounts of presence region energy.
There is a reason why at least one well-known member here (who'd also owned lots of gear) used these very speakers (Altec 604s on JE Labs baffles) as a long-term reference, why Yamamoto sold essentially the same speaker, why the Quad 57 (nearly identical in shape and power response) is such a classic.
But, honestly, I'm not out to convince anyone of anything. I really do not care. But, as long as you do not display any serious and stubborn misunderstandings of the basics of acoustics and speaker design (such as not understanding that a compression driver with a horn on it doesn't radiate to the rear even if you take off the back of the speaker!) I'd be happy to have a conversation with you. :) (As my limited time allows.)
"(such as not understanding that a compression driver with a horn on it doesn't radiate to the rear even if you take off the back of the speaker!)"
Get a grip, I never stated that, if I did, you would have quoted it.
It was always about the bass.
△ᴉʇɐuᴉɯnllI oᴉpn∀△
Right! You talked about artificial ambience, which is clearly, absolutely, an aspect of *treble* when it is present.
(I do hope you have issues with guys who put rear tweeters on their speakers, such as Von Schweikert.)
As for the bass, that is, again, you pontificating about a speaker you've never heard and do not understand. You waded into a topic you have no experience with, stuck your foot in your mouth, yet are apparently unwilling to admit even the possibility that you might be wrong. Whatever.
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