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Hi
I am interested in bass horn covering 100-600 hz. Since this is going in our (large) living room I am thinking round horn as they are more attractive to look at. I am looking for suggests on driver since Fane 8M is no longer made. Also any suggestions for people that will turn such large horns.
I listen the usual types of music of us guys in our 50s listen to. Tonal vibrancy, timbre and detail is more important to me than slam, etc.
Thanks all.
Follow Ups:
Edgar 100Hz hypex horn ~20"x20" mouth ~20.5" throat to mouth path
Peavey FH1
little Karlson coupler by Acoustic Control (will work 2-way with a K-tube for treble)
RCA-Fan folded 70Hz horn for 12" driver
Karlson Evangelist
http://www.ramsdellproaudio.com/products/midbasshorns/MBHs.html
It may not be quite what you had in mind, but the old Peavey FH-1 technically meets your requirements. I reloaded mine with Crites woofers, which are a good match for the original Peavey pre-Blackwidow drivers. The good news is that if you find a pair, it will undoubtedly be cheap. Specs are in the link.
stole this from fred.
past 400hz it looks jagged.
to me it shuts off at 150hz.
I've seen that before as well, though I'm not sure either of those curves are with the correct driver. It certainly doesn't match my experience with the ones I have.
Sorry to reply to myself. I did just notice that that chart is just one driver measured a couple of different ways, so maybe it isn't the chart I was remembering. It does make me want to drag one of mine out in the yard and measure it. Is there a preferred methodology?
Some more food for thought :)
https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/148054-quarter-pie-bass-horn-measured-fr-how2build-and-hornresp/
http://inlowsound.weebly.com/diy-100hz-midbass-horn.html
https://sites.google.com/site/diyfirefly/100-hz-multi-sided-conical-midbass-horns
Good cabs if you have room for a pair. This is the later version, which was ported and went down to 80Hz.
Put some lipstick on an A5.
The horn loading falls off below 160hz and the A5/A7.
If you can find and house a pair your gold.
Do they make the printers large enough?
Is about 300lbs of fiberglass and balsa wood.
On the floor, without knowing reactance and all that horn stuff, flat to 100hz, that'd make a big mouth. I call it 3pi because the horn is not terminating in the middle of a concrete wall, but it gets some loading compared to in mid air. I hope you put this on a concrete floor.Without hearing them, I'd look at the b&c 12pe32 (12") or the 8pe21 (8").
Both are used in the inlow horns, they both have too small mouth to me. He uses the 8" in a 135hz horn (theoretical 3db down) and the 12" in the 100hz midbass horn.http://www.inlowsound.com/
To me, ideally you can't make the mouth smaller than 6ft2 (2pi wants 4ft2 and 4pi want 8ft2), and it should be as deep as 1/2 octave below mouth cutoff, so a 100hz mouth should be 1/4 wavelength of 75hz long, or 3'9" deep.
Seeing the 6ft2 mouth is an option for me, but the 2' wide mouth would limit dispersion being almost 4' deep.
And there won't be much bass till you get 10' away also...........
Even Edgar admits his have too small of mouths, and you won't get much bass till you are 10' or more away.
Norman
Edits: 09/05/15
Thanks very much to all for the answers.
I'm not opposed to square boxes with two drivers per channel. ~ 4 foot length horns is no issue.
I listen from about 3-4 meters away.
I would strongly prefer to use current production drivers so I can check individual T/S specs.
What about 2 GPA Classic 515 per side?
The GPA 515 would be OK in a big horn.The RCA sounds the best of the 100hz double 15 horns, Altec A4, JBL4550, RCA Ubangi. I would build any of these without ported big back volume.
I designed and built two pair of these in 1981. Originally I used a pair of 15's, but changed to a pair of 12's to push the HF crossover point higher. The horn mouth is the same area as the Altec/JBL/RCA. They were 3dB down at 95hz on the floor (2Pi).
A new design for dual 12PE32, not yet built. About 40" deep.
Dual 12PE32 flat to 160hz (in 4Pi), only 24" deep, 30" wide, 40" tall.
This is the replacement design for the 48" wide 1981 design, much better form factor. Might go to 120hz or so on the floor (2Pi), not measured that way (as is used in 4Pi). Plans and cut list on line.
Another photo of this last one at the link.
Edits: 09/06/15 09/06/15
Thank you djk.
I am quite new to this. I will not be building them myself, but commissioning someone else to.
Is it right to assume that with 2 drivers per side the horn can be shorter?
"Is it right to assume that with 2 drivers per side the horn can be shorter?"
Yes, to a certain extent. There is no such thing as a free lunch!
My friends tell me the 1981 dual 12 models are the best sounding that I have done, but then complain they are too big (mainly the width, which also created a sight-line problem on small stages too)!
My designs are relatively simple to build, and usually very efficient for material (less waste).
For most people I suggest a half-height version of the dual 12 design, it ends up being the same size as the horn in an A5/A7/4560. This works well with smaller HF horns and drivers, and my PPSL bass cabinets.
How do we procure the plans for the "half-height" version?
What's the usable bandwidth? Danka amigo.
You will need to cut it down from the double plan. Remove the 1x4 front horn brace, and the motor board (part E) becomes 19".
Edits: 09/08/15
Not sure if you were looking at DIY or not but this one does 60hz-600hz. I've heard it and it is really good.
High sensitivity, wide dynamic range, low distortion, and smooth frequency response. Pwk
http://www.itishifi.com
Those look excellent.
looks great..is it available at a reasonbable price?
dimensions? what are the woofers 8"? 12" ? 15" and what brand
also dimensions?
thks for this link. makes me rethink my my a5.
The woofers are 12" K31 there are a couple options that work with it.
30" deep. About 43" wide. 33" tall. Tractrix.
It is DIY that is why I added the link.
High sensitivity, wide dynamic range, low distortion, and smooth frequency response. Pwk
http://www.itishifi.com
thanks. will look into to later. it looks doable but will take some effort
crossed to mid horn at 500 Hz. (picture above in the home of the previous owner).
Similar to...
http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/Edgar-Show-Horn.pdf
Think it uses a 12 in. JBL musical amp driver (99 dB) re-coded without the metal dust cap?
IIRC the length of the folded horn is exactly 1/2 the path length of an complete sign wave at 500 Hz so it's wired 180 Deg out of phase with the mid horn and both horns us first order X-over.
Which, of course, is a problem as the mid-bass horn driver is only 6 dB down at 1000 Hz and 12 dB down at 2000 Hz and etc.
Same applies to the mid horn. Driver is seeing 6 dB down at 250 Hz., etc.
I am now of the opinion that horns should the bi-amped and use digital z-over (steep) with phase/delay correction.
Especially as I mostly listen to digital steaming anyway. :-(
Is that the Fane tweeter?
I was using an Audax because it was good enough and cheap, and I never quite liked the Fane. I just traded my TAD 4001s for a pair of Fostex T500a MK2s and it's quite a bit better as expected. On paper, it should need some padding to blend well, but I hoked it up wide open and if anything, it might be just a bit soft though I haven't run the test tones to really find out.
It does look cool too.
The Audax is that triangle shaped box which just sits on top, so I just set it aside and set the Fostex on top the mid box.
-Rod
Since treble is now less distorted and better replicated the amk2 will not draw attention to itself like other tweeters will thus tends to sound less harsh or as you say soft. I set Bill Gaw up with a pair he has a similar rig. You most likely will not need to attenuate it unless your attenuating midrange. I would just run a capacitor works best like this in systems such as yours but YMMV.
'Soft' is perhaps a poor choice to describe the sound. I'd expected to need to attenuate the T500 a bit from my experience with Terry Cain's addition of lesser Fostex tweeters to his Big Bens. In that case the treble was over hyped and I thought the speaker sounded better without it all together. I had similar impressions of the Fane driver in the Edgar Horns, too splashy.
As you suggest, all I did is remove the old tweeter and hooked up the T500 to the existing cap and it sounds great and doesn't stick out at all which is what I want. I still need to take some measurements as I'm curious as to how the treble will measure now. The old Audax was definitely down 5db or more above 12Khz.
-Rod
Along with the JBL 2441's plus a 12 inch JBL 12 inch mid-bass driver which I do not recall the model number of.
Given my 'druthers, I pick a straight horn as you have for the mid bass with a REALLY nice JBL 14-15 incher doing the business.
The hand-crafted Cocobolo Wood veneer on these makes up for the lack of a straight horn I guess.
Well, the advantage of the folded horn is that it goes a bit lower and has a much smaller footprint. Mine have a 15" JBL D130s and they drop off like a rock a 80hz.
-Rod
But they do what they do, do well!
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