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Okay, so in the past I've had Klipsch speakers and read the tons of happy reviews about pairing them with various configurations of tubed equipment. I could never bring myself to try tubes because of my perhaps irrational fear of tube failure, different types & sounds of different tubes, bias adjusting, etc. The uncertainty, fear factor, "audio nervosa", whatever, has steered me away from them. Again, I know it's irrational, because I've never personally had any experience with tubes, nor do I know anyone who has, just things I've read & the fact that most of you who've used tube equip. are much more knowledgeable about electronic gear than I. Anyone else have that anxiety attack and all the aforementioned drama fill your brain from tube thoughts? * please say yes, it's hell to be old and alone with unfounded fears, yuk yuk :)
Everyone thinks I'm strange except my friends deep inside the earth
Follow Ups:
Lots in hifi are afraid to learn. Don't be amongst them- tubes are fun (I prefer class D for the load insensitivity, high power, low IMD, and reliability) but I use tubes sometimes and have built some rather rockin' tube-based gear in my day.
The simple point is, keep learning and experimenting 'til you die. If it's with the gear fine, but if you're happy with gear, experiment with music. Just don't be afraid of change.
Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.
Both solid state and tubed amps come in several flavors Class A, AB, D and whatever, well I don't know about Class D tubed amps.
I have built both tubed and solid state amps. The class A amps based on the Nelson Pass circuits tend toward the sound of tubed amps. And there are tubed amps setup to sound just like good solid state amps. My DIY Aleph J sounds a bit warmer than my ANK EL34 PP (Class AB1) amp.
Solid state amps tend to be a bit more complicated circuit wise (not always of course), and tubed amps allow tube changing to let the owner change the sound signature to some degree. If a tube does fail, its relatively easy to replace. If something fails in a solid state amp, its a bit harder than just ordering and installing a new tube.
To me, it comes down to sound signature, and whether or not the amp works well with your speaker. One can be happy with any amp that makes the sound you are looking for.
As I have tended to smaller wattage amps, my speaker choices have tended to high efficiency speakers. I use Zu (awaiting a set of the new Druids), which offer high impedence, and good dampening factor, allowing my choice of amps, for the most part. (isn't there always the reception, and usually someone who knows more than me)
I'm driving my Klipsch LaScala with a Tripath based Trends TA10.1
it's only 2 x 10watts but drives the Klipsch to club levels with heavy house music with no signs of stress, and sounds better than anything SS i've owned so far, including pure class A. It's dead silent also, wich is great for late night listening and classical music.
I do use it as a power amp tho, fed by a very good SS preamplifier.
you might want to try one just for the fun... you'll be surprised at the synergy!
Before purchasing (second hand) my Kurashima 45 SET, my electronics experience was limited to changing light bulbs and, just once, a fuse.
Since purchasing my Kurashima 45 Set, I upgraded the tubes to Emission Globes but have otherwise not touched it except when I turn it on or off.
Not sure how much easier things could be.
And the sound, for me anyway, is sublimed.
low-mass, screw-down connectors? Like those and have liked the look of Toshi's amps for some time.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
If I did this right, image link is to a jpg of the back of the amp.
Here is the link in case I messed up: http://tubesusa.com/images/DSC_0063.jpg
I really like the looks - and more important - sound of this amp. The only change I could ever see would be going to the Tungsten Amp. Really seems amazing to have the amp builder make his own tubes, including blowing the glass.
Blowing your own tubes. Your pride of ownership of this 45 amp must be off the charts! Lovely.
Always wondered about those thoriated tubes. No doubt pricey?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Horns love tubes!
Going from digital back to analog is like trying to make a steak out of hamburger!
Stick with steak(analog)
But some people do not like the sound of tubes, just as some people don't like the sound of SS amps. Of course, there are large variations in sound in both types and there is some overlap, as well.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Tubes are reliable. Solid state is reliable. Rolls Royce & Mercedes are top notch cars. Drive by the Rolls or Mercedes dealer and you will notice an entire shop full of those respective brands......getting fixed.
I bought the earlier mentioned Jolida amp brand new. Filled it with KT88 tubes as I recall.
To cut to the chase, one day a power tube went out on me. Jolida said they would send a new tube....but.....a new AMP arrived. I called and they laughed....said to send the old amp back so I did (they paid shipping)
Couple days later, the new tube that they were supposed to send arrived.
Guess someone screwed up and read "send replacement tube" to be 'send replacement amp'!
The saga continued..... couple days later, I get a call from their shop. "We received your amp, checked it out and there is nothing wrong, we're sending it back"
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO that is not my amp anymore.....
So yeah....for the issue of a single tube that went belly up, I almost got a second amp free of charge out of the deal!
Classy company to deal with but, just like a Rolls Royce, Mercedes or solid state, they're man made and can blow up on you.
Owned a pair of Cornwalls for a decade; they're rough and ready; fun and immediate but oh-so-unrefined and ultimately fatiguing and frustrating. Replace everything but the cabinet hardware ;-) a la Crites (and others who make a living undoing what the Colonel did) and maybe they're OK. Maybe.
Altec, my son. Altec.
... yes, and vacuum tubes.
Tube hardware is way more robust than soiled state. Don't want to fiddle with matching and bias; go with single-ended outputs and/or fixed bias.
... and you'll probably never lose a vacuum tube component to an electrical storm power surge or brownout.
Just my opinions of course, what do I know?
all the best,
mrh
I think a lot of this comes from the early Chinese 6550/KT88 tube production. Those things received the nickname "firecrackers" because they were so unreliable!
Fast forward 10+ years now, and we just don't see those types of issues anymore. If you have high efficiency Klipsch speakers, you can get away with a small single ended amplifier with automatic bias and high reliability.
Welp David...
I'm a Klipsch guy. Been one for a pretty long time.
I've used several solid state items:
Yamaha CR-2040
Crown K2
dbx BX3
dbx BX1
and I have used a handful of tube items:
Wright 2A3 SET mono blocks
Jolida (forget model number)
Quad II mono blocks
McIntosh MC-30 mono blocks
McIntosh MC-2102
Transcendent SE-OTL mono blocks
Viva 300B SET
I think that's most or all of them....
My opinion is they all sounded good. Even the low powered amps sounded good AS LONG as they were playing within their range.
Today, I've sold 100% of the tube amps and am biamping with a pair of Crown K2's.
I felt the various amps might have imparted a difference in sound. I've always likened the analogy to this. I cook three hamburgers for you. They are identical in all ways. If I take one with zero salt and let you taste it, you have a reference point. If I take the second one and put ten shakes of salt on it, you would be able to easily discern the difference between those two. What if I take the third burger and put NINE shakes of salt on it.... would you so quickly be able to tell the difference between that one and the burger with 10 shakes? Maybe you could....maybe it would be difficult.
I liken differing amps (while in their power band) similar to the nine/ten shakes of salt.
If you REALLY want to jump your system up then in my opinion, a different amp isn't necessarily the best way to do it. I felt that getting a larger speaker was a much more significant change to my sound than all those amps put together.
Today, I've got what I feel to be substantially better sound, substantially more funds in my pocket and the ease of a solid state system (tube preamp).
How dare you admit to being pleased with Crown K-2's ? :)
What is also interesting is that, Not one tube preamp/linestage I ever tried has pleased me as much as my current solid state unit.
And....
Not one single solid state unit has pleased me as much as a tubed
amp for use in the mid range.
Each configuration of a system I have tried has varying results. I have a theory that all the electronic components in a system all speak to one another about their happiness in what they are doing.
Hey, great analogy since I'm a burger guy. Thanks, Dave
Everyone thinks I'm strange except my friends deep inside the earth
Don't fear tubes....they are more reliable than you might think if you buy them from a reputable supplier who tests them.
My Scott 299A I rehabbed and retubed in 2001 and use it every day. Still using the same tube set 15 years later without incident
My Fisher 400 got a rehab and retubing in 2004. We use it twice a day...no problems.
Much of my other tube gear has been just as reliable.
My one and only tube amp was an Audio Note P2SE that I bought in 1995 and owned for 17 years. It was 100% reliable during the time I owned it with no problems whatsoever. Same was true of the Audio Note pre-amp I had. My positive experience may not be representative of tube equipment in general, but it shows that reliable, worry free, good sounding gear does exist. I'm sure the same could be said about other brands/models.
Now see, that's the kind of thing that might have helped me a lot way back when. It seems all I could glean from earlier readings was how much trouble tubes were, undependable, etc., although almost to a person, how wonderful they were when you "got it right". Prolly just my typical "glass half empty" polnt of view. Thanks, Dave
Everyone thinks I'm strange except my friends deep inside the earth
There is no reason to fear tube failure, tubes are very reliable. I have
been running DIY tube amps extensively for several years and to date
I have had only one tube fail. That was a brand new tube that failed on
initial start up, most likely something wrong with it from the factory.
As Crazy Dave pointed out below, you may want to listen to some tube amps
before buying one. Some people like the sound (I do) but some people don't. They are not cheap, especially if you buy off the shelf.
Kits are cheaper if you feel up to the task of slinging some solder.
Good luck
Cal
I don't like running tubes in the summer as they can add a lot of heat to the room depending on what amp/how many tubes etc.
Klipsch's will sound really best w/tube IMO. Which ones do you have? I don't care for many of the newer ones and the older ones need x-over upgrades IMO.
E
T
Well, I don't have the Klipsch spkrs any longer, and I can't recall the models, but they were circa 90's and middle of the line-up, not top end. I have ML Source speaks now, running them with a Sheng-Ya integrated. And I just realized it's with a bit of irony I purchased the amp, since it is a hybrid, having a TUBED!!! front end. Imagine that, after having gone on about my fear of tubes. Evidently I must have considered it less of a potential problem when I bought it. Can't recall now, but I did buy it after a very favorable review. Anyhow, I appreciate all the responses which have gone a good way to dispel my "fear" so to speak, should I ever be in the position to consider a new/different amp. Dave
Everyone thinks I'm strange except my friends deep inside the earth
Well I recommend you try one. You'll have fun. Wait until November when it will help heat the house. Cheers!
E
T
A nice pair of klipschs and a low watt tube amp make a great summer combo
i use a Grommes phi-26 1.75 wpc amp with a pair of Quartets
not much heat
Surely if there was a speaker that could work with a tube amp that did not make a lot of heat they'd be a nice set of older Klipsch's. Cheers!
E
T
I used tubes for quite a while (Dynaco Mark IV and Conrad Johnson PV3) and still have some tube gear in the wings that I plan to refurbish, but for no my stereo is all transistor. It sounds great, needs very little attention and I am cool with that. Unless you have a lot of money, tubes require a lot more attention. No audio nevosa, just a fact. I recommend you listen to some tube gear to see if it is worth it to you. There are many ways to good sound.
Dave
Thanks from one Crazy Dave to another. Yeah, you're right, there are a LOT of ways to good sound, which to me is almost overwhelming considering all the combinations. I suppose getting that synergistic combo is what seems so hard to put together, although I must say I have heard many more demonstrations of equip. that sounded great than the other way around. Must be my not so discerning hearing. Which, I'm thinking has been a blessing in the end, both for my bank account & my marriage. ;) Dave (the other crazy)
Everyone thinks I'm strange except my friends deep inside the earth
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