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In Reply to: RE: Cornwal iii Squawker horn upgrades posted by tutor turtle on December 22, 2014 at 11:49:04
Really!!! PWK would put a horn on a speaker that distorts? HOGWASH
When they redid the Heritage line in 2006 they almost went with a much larger horn. I wish they had. Lots of options out there.
High sensitivity, wide dynamic range, low distortion, and smooth frequency response. Pwk
Follow Ups:
perhaps distort was the wrong term.
Harsh, fatiguing, ringing….
remember I have replaced the stock crossover with an extreme slope cross over from ALK. there are many tuning options to the crossover I have yet to explore. The bottom line is more energy is being pushed through that horn then it was originally designed for. If it were an aluminum horn, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Dampening undercoat has helped, so I know I'm varying up the right tree. when the volume levels are low, it sounds as sweet as can be. problem is, I like concert level volume.
The design as-is was ok, but there is room for improvement it's just going to take so effort on my part to workout the bugs. no one ever said speaker design or modification is easy
BTW, previous comment may no not be totally correct.
Which extreme slope crossover are you using? ES600 or ES700? The Cornwall III is rated for 800hz cross to the mid with the Ti diaphragm. It may be pushing the mids a little too hard and low with the ES crossovers along with the Ti. I venture to guess the slope on the Cornwall is more gentle and pushed up in frequency to not make the Ti misbehave.
PeterZ
Peter,
I conversed with Al for close on a year on this design, it was his first Gen 3 Cornwal. Knowing Al, I'm quite certain he did his homework.
In the end he picked 600hz and 8000khz for the cross over points. In our email exchanges he went into extensive detail as to why he chose these points.
High levels, pushing a driver designed for 800hz with a 600hz crossover, even if a high slope, might be pushing it. It would harden up and sound like you describe.
When you say more energy is coming from the midrange, that all makes sense. Maybe pushing too hard for the Ti.
PeterZ
In the preliminary design stage, Al informed me since the Gen3 set the x-over points at 800 & 5000, he suggested (and I agreed) employing the gentle slope AP12-700 for the low end and the steeper sloop ES5800 for the mid to high point. It would be a very expensive mistake if what you are saying turns out to be true.
where did you get the idea that the K52 series of drivers is only good to 800 Hz.? You were misinformed. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
I am just pointing out that Klipsch documents an 800hz crossover on the Cornwall III. Klipsch's crossovers don't typically push the lower registers as hard where the horn crosses (and shouldn't because that is where the distortion is).
My assumption and I maybe wrong is that the reason the 800hz crossover and horn combo with the Ti driver didn't get moved back down to the 600hz - 700hz (as in older speaker lines) is that it does not perform as well down there. Now hit the driver with high power and what will you have, probably not good sound?
Similar to reasons the pro horns typically bumped up in frequency range, they play better louder and are less likely to self destruct.
I could be totally wrong and for the investment, I hope so and there is an easy fix. I just don't think I would push this driver that low very loud plus being on then edge of the horn Fc doesn't help.
Easiest way to see if it is the horn ringing is to pack it in rope caulk. Removable and a good test. If the problem is not solved, a larger horn and possibly driver will be in order.
PeterZ
The same size driver is used in a CW2 and in Chorus 2 crosses at 600Hz I believe. The story was that Klipsch lost the mould for the K600 I suppose they also lost the mould for the K601 as well ad they had to use the K701 in the H3 as a result. The K700/701 is the device with the problem playing low because it is too small. Klipsch would get a big yellow BS button from me if I had one to send to them. Those who have switched out to the ti diaphragm in the CW2 and Chorus ll with its larger horn are as far as I know very pleased with the results. The K55 for those with a taste for phenolic diaphragms can play very low indeed very low. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
The K-55 will work down to 100 Hz. (although not very loud) it's the horn that's the limit.
Did Al build an extreme slope particularly for the Cornwall III?
Those crossovers were used for the K55 mid driver. If I am not wrong, the Cornwall III does not use that driver so the component values in the crossover are possibly not a good match for the mid driver in the new Cornwall III. There are likely tweaks needed for the k-53-Ti driver. Crossovers aren't usually interchangeable for optimum performance.
PeterZ
Al was well informed as to which drivers were used in the Gen 3, and yes this was his first design for the 3's
Mass is your most reliable friend when dealing with vibrations. Damping is nice, and can on occasion do things that can't be done any other way, but more often than not either it does not work, or it solves inaudible problems without touching the audible ones.
Paul,
Al provided for 14 levels of attenuation for the mid range and five levels the the high end. I still have lots of dialing in to do before I jump into major changes.
Looking at alternative horns is all part of the research. So far I don't see even on one alternative to the stock horn without glomping one on top. I really don't want to do that.
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