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In Reply to: RE: I am hating the single driver sound. What am I doing wrong? posted by ElWoodrow on December 15, 2014 at 12:43:01
The OP is a manufacturer of speakers that are available everywhere. If he doesn't understand how to identify problems or how to design a speaker, are we here to alleviate that situation? He undoubtedly has more resources at his command than the average DIY guy does. Look at Definitive Technology (his company)and tell me if I'm just an off base wacko as usual.
If he doesn't like the sound, try a sub. If he doesn't like the highs, try a tweeter. If he doesn't like every thing, he can redesign it. What he can't do, in my eyes, is talk about a particular format sounding bad and act like a newby.
If you want to help a manufacturer make a better product that's a great idea and something we should all stand behind. If you're a manufacturer looking for a design staff, pay them.
His company site is listed here:
Follow Ups:
the speakers I bought were for my personal use to try the single driver sound out of my own curiosity. We have a design team at Definitive of about 8 engineers who design our stuff and I am not in the engineering department. Also, A single driver speaker would never work in the consumer market, so I am not trying to get information to develop a product. I had read about single driver speakers and wanted to know what the fuss was about. This is in no way related to a potential speaker design for sale.
I am looking for help on making a single driver speaker sound good because the highly regarded ones I tried sounded terrible everywhere and in every room on every amp. I figured I just be doing something wrong in my set up. I was seeking advice on something I am not very knowledgeable about. I tried most of the suggestions and found none of them to help. So, I'm giving up of the single driver stuff. Maybe my room just doesn't work for these types of speakers.
The single-driver speaker Intried I did not like. But, at the next high end show I attend I will try to find a good demo.
I was simply seeking information on a subject I don't know much about from the more experienced people on this forum. I do work at Definitive, by I am also an audio hobbyist as well.
Aren't transistors alien technology?
You certainly have a paranoid view of the world. How about this? Why don't you see if definitive ever makes a single driver speaker? It ain't happening. It's not in development. Our new products are all wireless network based audio. We will sell a lot more of that than an expensive, quirky niche product ever would.
I'm sorry you view everything as a conspiracy to defraud others. It was just an individual asking for suggestions. Not everyone is bad bad person with nefarious intentions.
Aren't transistors alien technology?
E1Woodrow wrote, "Aren't transistors alien technology?"
No they were invented right here on Earth. If memory serves me correctly they were a Bell Labs invention.
...and presented the result to the public as if it was their development. This fact was actively concealed at the time but with the advent of the Internet we now know the truth ;-)
The Roswell crash was in July 1947. Bell Labs began experimenting with semi-conductors in November of that year. Coincidence?
Secret sources attribute the Roswell UFO crash to vacuum tube failure. The aliens were tired of using cheap Chinese made tubes, they wanted to steal the military's stash of Mullards.
Some say this Mr. Woodrow is an alien and trying to steal our single driver secrets for nefarious otherworldly purposes. What if.. he has lived here for eons and made single driver speakers to eventually drive human kind to madness and take over our world?
nt
all the best,
mrh
Ya I didn't really see the harm in the question.
Happy Holidays.
You have 8 engineers in a company and you post this here. I can come up with 2 conclusions: 1) you are concerned that full range speakers are turning a corner and may cut into your products materially or, 2) you have no faith in your engineers to solve your problems with the concept.
If I were 1 of your engineers and read your post I would be in your office asking a lot of questions and making a proposal and likely venting and being insulted.
What you have done with no disclosure that you are a competing manufacturer does not sit well. I find it so very odd that as a manufacturer you would personally buy something of such a nature for personal use. I suspect it came company funds as company expense, likely against the r&d budget. As a personal speaker system, it would be an embarrassment to tell others when asked that you do not use your own product in your own system.
When I owned my stores no product I did not sell was in my home non-vintage system. If we dropped a brand, if I had a model in my system, it came out and was replaced by a current model from a manufacturer we were a dealer of. For certain customers, they were invited home for auditions and I would be embarrassed if so.e competitor's product was in the system.
When I was with Genesis their totl speaker was not as good as the lowlyest speaker I owned but I did have a pair in a 2nd system to placate the boss.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
I highly doubt that a company like Def Tech would build a full range driver loudspeaker and if they wanted to the information exists in legion with just a brief google search. Its the usual AA response that manufacturers are somehow disingenuous shills.
Kloss, before I accept your blanket condemnation of High Efficiency Speaker Asylum members as always being mean to manufacturers I would like to know if we have made you feel rejected or mistreated.
I can't imagine that I have made you feel that way since I have always been shamefully approving of both your designs and craftsmanship.
Lots of wonderful people on AA I refer to the treatment the Def tech manufacturer recieved I have also noted others being chased away . Do understand AA rules and the manufacturer restrictions I feel are fair. Dont think I lumped all forum members into my post but the attitude I eluded to exists.
> Its the usual AA response that manufacturers are somehow disingenuous shills.
That's perhaps a bit of a harsh judgement, though I agree some of the responses were also a bit harsh. However, while it's understandable that an executive wouldn't have the technical chops to identify technical issues, it's also curious that his engineers wouldn't.
I know that I don't care for single driver full range systems. If the cone is large enough to deliver the lows it's also going to be too large to deliver the highs, if not on-axis then certainly off-axis.
I Might also point out that I would likely hide where I work in my profile if I really was trying to steal trade secrets to create a single driver product. Currently I am using the Definitive STS with my 300B amp and having fantastic results. It is 92 db and has a powered woofer section.
Aren't transistors alien technology?
I have an idea on what brand driver you tried. The truth is, they do indeed sound like crap. A lot of hype on their website.
Even if I am right, I am not going to post the guess.
If you really truly want help, then post ALL the details.
...By now it should be clear the original post was less a request for help and much more a "statement" and a provocative one at that. A this point there are 54 responses to the OP, only two of which are the OPer responding to the responses and one of them contains the declaration that he's done with single drivers. Bottom line: don't expect disclosure of anything because getting single drivers to work well probably wasn't the primary intention of the post in the first place.
Later!
Another paranoid audio conspiracist, I thought there might be one forum where people were civil. I guess not.
Aren't transistors alien technology?
I will end this conversation. I refuse to disparage the other speaker company that I didn't have success with their product as they are highly respected by others. I know many people at other companies and prefer to remain on good terms with all of them. I will give these speakers another home with a friend who might have better luck with setting them up.
I might have a tricky room. I can't change the room. These speakers could be amazing with the right room and equipment. I have a very high ceiling and have to set them in from of a Stine mantle surrounding a fireplace. My Definitive STS work very well here, but I assume this is because I can dial in the bass as they are self amplified.
Oh, and another thing. Many people who work for companies in the AV business don't own the products they sell. You might. Be surprised. People in the AV business change companies a lot and they don't dump their old system every time they change jobs. They also own other products to benchmark against them. Quite a few people own Quad ESLs for just that purpose. They are the reference standard for transparency and speed. Quite a few employees of other speaker companies have bought speakers from Definitive. We don't assume that they feel their products suck, just that they prefer our speaker in a particular situation. A number of people have bought our outdoor speakers and in ceiling speakers because their company doesn't offer that type of product. We don't name names as that would be considered impolite.
Aren't transistors alien technology?
product in your companies line to be a good worker bee. Toe the line, you may not think for yourself. Why, in my living room I have a dead fish from every catch my fishing boat has ever hauled to market. Ah! the wonderful sweetness of it! My owner just loves me.
Personally I'm appalled at the nastiness posted in this thread.
Aren't transistors alien technology?
I already answered this question for him in my post above.
...one of the morons who use a signature line in the same size and font as their regular posts.
Very annoying that...
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