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In Reply to: RE: AGAIN Why no rear and front HORN loaded MIDRANGE drivers in Pro sound ? posted by Don Reid on December 11, 2014 at 21:06:56
Hello Don:
You admitedly have no experience with double loaded horns. In my example do you really think you will be able to "HEAR" a 4ms=48"=4 feet time difference between HF and MR or phase distortion when there is insignificant freq cross over between horns. May I respectfully recommend you take your own advice!
"If you do not understand why this is so you really might consider learning a few more of the basic ideas of sound, speaker design and the such so that you can answer this question for yourself".
Rafaro
Follow Ups:
"You admitedly have no experience with double loaded horns."I do, they sound poor. PWK (also) wrote about why they sounded bad, about 50 years ago.
" In my example do you really think you will be able to "HEAR" a 4ms=48"=4 feet time difference between HF and MR or phase distortion when there is insignificant freq cross over between horns."
Yes.
Edits: 12/13/14
DJK
The Klipsch Horn itself has a built in delay between the midrange horn and the output of the woofer through the folded corner horn, and this delay reaches up well into the critical midrange over an octave above the 200 Hz region of the acoustical crossover of a typical BLH or double loader. I've heard of attempts to get the mid and woofer in phase with digital delay on a K-horn, but I've never listened to one. I've always liked the K-horns, but due to this delay and it's proximity to the midrange (plus the offset between the mid and tweeter), the K-horns present a rather vague stereo image. For this reason they have been dismissed and ignored by what's left of the audiophile press (Stereophile and TAS), at least until Sound Practices appeared in the early 90's.
When I met PWK back in the 90's I asked him about the subject of time alignment of the drivers. He told me that he had tested this where he had a separate mid and woofer placed in front of him playing music, with an assistant who would move the woofer as he listened with his eyes closed. He had his hand raised and would lower it when he heard a difference. At one point he noticed something had bumped his foot, and when he opened his eyes he saw it was the woofer! Following this story he produced the famous B.S. button from his pocket. He was a grand gentleman and an audio pioneer, but in regards to this he missed the boat in my opinion. BTW I agree that a 48" offset between the tweeter and mid in a K-horn would definitely be audible and not for the good.
Paul
I met PWK in '74, spent a day with him at his factory in Hope. The subject of the LF horn delay didn't come up, but a lot of other things did, so I got some insight into his thought process. I'd bet he was very aware of it, but since the technology of the day didn't offer a simple way of overcoming it he simply chose to ignore it, based on his belief that the speaker still sounded very good. He took the same attitude about placing the mid and HF diffraction horns horizontally instead of vertically. He was much more concerned about the overall result than with nit-picking over what he thought were minor details.
Bill
That's very much the impression I got of him. He had a bit of a curmudgeonly manner, but he very patiently posed for pictures with anyone who wanted one, autographed pics of himself, and answered all questions, even very basic amateur ones. Someone asked him which audio designs other than his he respected. He answered that Altec was one he regarded highly, and Olson too. Asked if he knew Olson, he replied "Well, I met him....".
Paul
I met him because I was playing at a nearby club and he happened to drop in. This being the time when the Shure Vocal Master was the king of the Ramada Inn circuit he took notice of my JBL 4560 style horns loaded with Altec 417s. He was up on the competition, and knew that they weren't JBL or Altec, so after he asked me what they were and I told them I had designed and built them he introduced himself and invited me to his factory. He was further intrigued when I told him I'd built a KHorn clone sans mid and high drivers, using it in a corner for lows, with a pair of smaller speakers flanked to either side for the L/R, sort of a pre-historic sub-satellite arrangement. He then showed me his pet system, KHorns in two corners with a Heresy in the middle of the wall, sort of a pre-historic L/C/R rig.
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