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Hi guys,
Been getting around town in central PA and finding that most area bars have a common problem and that's the systems play loud have decent boom but lack midbass punch and vocal articulation. Guitars and horns can be nasty too.
I can get those attributes easily at home with decent 12" two ways and 15" threeways. What systems do we know of that can do that for 300 people in a few thousand square feet of space?
Best I've heard is World Café in Pilly and Building 24 outside of reading.
Thanks,
Scott
Follow Ups:
Are you attempting to design/improve a system for a particular venue, or are you just interested in knowing more about nightclub sound system design?
Live or recorded music?
:)
I have friends and family who play in bands in the area. Some of them sing very well but don't get heard so well. It would be nice to build good clear top boxes for them to use from time to time. I'd of course use them in between. Subs are easy.
You should take a look at the plans available from Bill Fitz
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/
You can get ideas of whats best for you at his forum
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/
You can hear lots of them on youtube, but crummy mics will make anything with subs sound distorted
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bill+fitzmaurice+speakers
Chances are that the problem is eq based rather than necessarily bad speakers. LOTS of clubs and bars have no clue and though the gear may be workable the implementation often isn't. Your home environment is a lot easier to work, I'd bet.
W
Chances are it's a lack of directivity, not an EQ problem.I would consider Art's solution, or I could offer a horn-loaded dual 12 solution if desired.
Edits: 11/24/14 11/24/14
What dual midcab are you using?
Thanks
Scott
My brother made that set for a friend on mine, uses the B&C 12PE32.A set I made in 1981 for the same friend as above, they were a bit too large to haul abound.
Edits: 11/26/14 11/26/14
Nice!
What crossoverpoints?
I wonder if there is enough room for a couple of side firing subs built in.
Thanks?
150hz and 1Khz.
I agree..that and just not enough equipment for the venue.
Holy crap!! Are people still using that stuff?!
Sound better than the very expensive line array stuff.
I replaced a 4 box per side line array with a single dual 12 horn load per side and more than doubled the distance for inteligibility in a large club (30' for the line array, 80' for the horns).
Hi djk.
Your double 12" horn looks great !!! Is this set up strictly for PA work or would this also make a killer mid bass horn for a home horn system ? What is the frequency response of that horn ? Thanks for all your input.
I would suggest building it half-height (30W x 20H x 24D)and cross it at 250hz and 1Khz or so.
The 30 x 20 is the same size as the horn in the original Altec A7, but with a 12 it can go higher, and we can use something with real bass below it. Going higher allows us to select the HF driver on the basis of its VHF peformance, rather than its midrange performance (like an A7).
You can get 104dB/2.83V response from a 35hz PPSL woofer, and get good time-alignment too.
This thread has DIY plans for a speaker that is both LOUD and articulate:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/264485-syntripp-2-way-2-part-virtual-single-point-source-horn.html
A pair of SynTripP cabinets will cover a lot more than 300 people, but the efficiency also makes them a good choice for those that "want to rock with just one watt".
Sensitivity is defined as the sound pressure level (SPL) output at a voltage equivalent to one watt at one meter in a loudspeaker's nominal impedance rating, the SynTripP is 4 ohms LF, 8 ohms HF. The output of 99 dB at 100 Hz (half space, 92 dB free space) is quite good for a cabinet of this small size, high SPL with "flea power" amplification is possible.
The F3 is 82 Hz, the low note on a 6 string guitar, so although the SynTripP covers the vocal range well, for loud rock a sub woofer system would be added.
I have a number of sub designs of various types (BR,DFLH,FLH, TH) and sizes appropriate for use with the SynTripP, the Keystone Sub
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/185588-keystone-sub-using-18-15-12-inch-speakers.html
is about the same sensitivity.
Art
Edits: 11/22/14 11/22/14
Hi Art,
I've followed that thread from time to time, but I can't access the pictures, because I'm not a member. Could you post one here?
They sound intriguing.
Jamie
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
As DJK wrote "Sign up, it's free and takes about one minute."
For those of you who have not signed up already, I have posted a picture here of the SynTripP with and without the secondary horn expansion above a few sculptures around the property.
Sign up, it's free and takes about one minute.
djk,
Thanks again for the information.
Will do.
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
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