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In Reply to: RE: Will it work on it's side? posted by Kloss on November 02, 2014 at 07:22:36
That's where the double basses are. ;-)
Follow Ups:
I've been to many concerts in many cities and they don't all have the standard set up. It depends on the conductor, the music, the room and the orchestra.
the double basses are where ever I put the sub. ;-)
The double bass produces fundamentals down to about 40 Hz (open E string, IIRC), but it also produces significant overtones to well over 1000 Hz.Given that you'd be crossing over at approximately 100 Hz (at whatever slope), the sub will be producing harmonics well above 100 Hz - along with the main speakers producing them as well, producing an unnatural effect of hearing the double bass sometimes emanating from multiple locations. This effect will vary depending upon the notes being played, and may even produce a "swimming" effect.
If you wish to avoid this problem, you would do well to cross your new sub at about 50 Hz. With a 12 dB/octave slope, output will be down 12 dB by 100 Hz, thus avoiding the majority of hearing multiple sources. Whether or not your current speakers will provide enough output down to, say 70 Hz, to make this workable, I don't know. If you can cross at a faster slope, e.g., 18 or 24 dB/octave, then you can move the crossover frequency up a bit, but you still want that sub down by at least 12 dB by 100 Hz.
Alternatively, if you need to cross higher than about 50 Hz, get two subs and place them next to each of the main speakers. In either case, two subs will provide the best integration.
Another thought is, given the size of the LF horn of your Titan IIs, you might consider just replacing it (both of them) with a 12" or 15" driver in a direct radiator box of appropriate design (vented or sealed). This, of course, also depends on how high the current LF horn is being asked to go. But certainly, if it already contains a 15" driver, converting it to a direct radiator to gain more low end is clearly an option.
To Kyle's point about orchestra layouts: very true. Having played in orchestras and now playing in a wind symphony, I've experienced multiple layouts. Further, given that you're listening to music recorded over multiple decades, you'll find that preferred layouts have changed over the years.
For example, I've not seen an orchestra recently which places the first violins to the left of the conductor and the second violins to the right, although it was not uncommon in the mid-twentieth century. Certainly, there are all kinds of variations with regard to the woodwinds, and, depending on the conductor and the venue, the timpani can be anywhere from left to center to right. So, don't view the M-W dictionary diagram as a hard-and-fast rule - it's just one possibility.
:)
Edits: 11/04/14
"I've not seen an orchestra recently which places the first violins to the left of the conductor and the second violins to the right..."Quite common in Europe, and even in San Francisco when Herbert Blomstedt comes to town. I suspect it's because that's the seating for the Gewandhaus Orchestra of Leipzig.
Seem to recall the Berlin Philharmonic uses the 'firsts' on the left and the 'seconds' on the right. Been a while since I heard them live in Berlin (with Abado).
Edits: 11/04/14
I need to get to Europe again soon!
So, where does the conductor place the double basses and the timpani in those cases? ;)
:)
Looks like the timpani upper middle and percussion is upper left?
Do like firsts and seconds on either side of the conductor as you can really hear in interplay between sections much more clearly in some works.
Munich Philharmonic Orchestra with the basses on the left!
Edits: 11/04/14
THat orchestra is backwards!! I have been to a lot of concerts in Europe and never seen a setup like that.
What I want to know is: What the heck is going on there?! There's people playing, people yucking it up, people paying attention, a bassoon player scratching his nose, etc., when the conductor is on the podium!
That is the funniest photo of an orchestra that I've ever seen!
:)
Conductor: "How does it sound with the double basses on the left side?"
The crossover frequency of a filter is its -3db point.Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 11/04/14
Yes.
:)
I saw a Butter-worth simulation once, that indicated it's only 12 db/octave
grand total. In other words, the -3db does not get added.
So, 100 hz would be down 12 db. Not exactly sure, because for years I
thought it was 15 db like you posted.
I'm not a crossover guy, so with any luck some one else might chime in and set us straight on this topic.
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