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In Reply to: RE: The elephant in the room is... posted by Duke on August 26, 2014 at 11:17:21
So you saying that headphones are not the ultimate reference because you would erroneously perceive the pitch of an anomaly due to the slower decay of bass energy in a room. I will keep that in mind when I compare. That given, headphones still could be useful in detecting the presence of an anomaly even if there are inaccuracies in its presentation. Of course how a room sounds can ultimately only be judged by how it sounds. I was looking at purchasing a sound level meter, but that has its problems too. It appears there is no simple solution.
Dave
Follow Ups:
Where pitch and timbre are concerned you can't hear it in the true sub bass frequencies, ie., below 35Hz. That information comes from the bass and higher frequencies. It's not easy to test that out, as you need not only the usual sine wave generator etc. but also speakers capable of both high output and extremely low THD, otherwise what you're hearing when you play a 25Hz tone and you can discern pitch is harmonics. But if you have horn loaded subs with an Fc of 30Hz or lower you can test them in your backyard and distinctly hear where the sound transforms from indistinguishable rumble to actual pitch, in the 35-40Hz region. It's just as enlightening to play 15Hz at 100dB and not hear a thing, with only the reading of the meter telling you that the sound is there.
By the same token chances are you can't find phones with low enough THD below 35Hz at a high enough output level to hear only the fundamental and not harmonics as well.
It took me a while to digest this, before I could comment. I think you are saying inside a normal room all you will hear is ruble below 35Hz. With headphones, you will have the same result, but it is from THD. So the headphone comparison is only valid above 35hz. Interesting what you say about a horn sub outdoors. Someday I should order the plans and build a Tuba ...
Dave
> I think you are saying inside a normal room all you will hear is ruble below 35Hz.
Yep. It doesn't seem that way, but only because it is an exceedingly rare situation where you'd have frequencies lower than 35Hz with no accompanying harmonics providing pitch and timbre information.
A big ten-four on that!
If "audiophiles" would actually open a book (not to be confused with a magazine or brochure) and learn about the harmonic structure of various instruments, they'd learn that most of what they're hearing when they listen to the very low tones on, say, a tuba or bass violin (string bass) or pipe organ, are the first couple of overtones, not the fundamental. The first overtone (second harmonic) is almost always at a much higher level than the fundamental.
This is one of the reasons why I keep recommending Harry Olson's "Music, Physics and Engineering". It's a treasure trove of knowledge needed to gain a basic understanding of sound, musical instrument sound characteristics, how sound behaves in rooms, and more.
:)
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