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In Reply to: RE: I Need Help Achieving 100Hz & Below Correctly posted by thetubeguy1954 on August 14, 2014 at 17:55:37
Means drivers not loading cab properly a BLH 1/2 that size with fostex fe208e sigma strong to 40hz.. So I would suggest selling off your Sachiko. And building a cabinet that matches your driver choice. Or build a bass horn bills plans are good. To me mains that large only running down to 100hz is a bit silly. You could put the Dayton in a wee cube and get 100hz. Not trying to be rude just honest.
Follow Ups:
John,
I know you're a man of character so I know you'd never be deliberately rude to me. I've never measured the frequency response of the Sachiko/PS220-8 combo. From subjective listening I believe I easily have down to 50Hz and perhaps even 40Hz. Many people tell me I'm crazy for even thinking about using subs because in their opinion, the frequency response is fine " as-is! "
Besides, they'll usually add, when you have musical reproduction that's this transparent & musically accurate! Even if all you have is a frequency response of 50Hz to 35KHz what you have is so darn good who cares if that's the entire response? There's not much below 50Hz on most recordings anyways.
So while I'd start the subs crossing in at 100Hz. I'd keep going down by 10Hz ---{ 90Hz, 80Hz, 70Hz, 60Hz, 50Hz etc. }--- until it best matched the Sachiko/PS220-8 combo's reproduction sonically. As always John thanks for your input...
I'm listening to Night On Bald Mountain by Fireballet
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Maybe a Tapped horn?
John that was a very kind and generous thing to do. To post the design in both metric and inches! Thank you so very much. I guess I am going to have to learn metric. Perhaps I'm missing something blatantly obvious to everyone else. But I don't seem to see the size of the four drivers mentioned anywhere in either inches or metric.
I'm listening to: The Outsiders by Altered Laws Jazz Quartet
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Design for eminence 15in one could build a 1/2 with 2-15 or maybe 4-12in
I'd go in the opposite direction. First I'd make sure that I found a subwoofer capable of playing 20 hz - 30 hz cleanly.Then, I'd set the crossover at the very lowest setting and the volume at the highest reasonable setting.
Then, I'd move UP 10 hz at a time (30hz, 40hz, 50 hz...), gradually turning the volume level down as I moved upwards, in order to obtain the flattest possible response and the smoothest blending of mains and sub.
It is said that one of the biggest mistakes we can make when adding a subwoofer to our systems is setting the crossover too high, which in turn necessitates setting the volume too low.
Edits: 08/16/14 08/16/14 08/16/14
Thanks Genungo! I didn't realize there was a difference between going up 10Hz at a time or going down 10Hz at a time until one achieved the flattest response and a smooth blending between the subs and the mains. I've been involved in audio 47 years now, since I turned 13 and believe it or not this is the first time I'll be trying to integrate subs into my audio system. I've stayed away until now because most times I don't like what I hear when people add subs.
That said, the few times where I've heard subs installed and I can say I thoroughly enjoyed listening to what I heard. I was extremely impressed with how much better the entire musical presentation was! Yes the bass was obviously deeper, but the soundstage was also noticeably wider & deeper, one could easily sense more air & space, inner detail was better and there was more sustain & decay of the notes. Harmonics, pitch and timbre was more natural.
It just seemed that EVEYTHING improved, not just the bass and that's something I just cannot seem to understand the reasons why it occurs? Has anyone else noticed this same, strange phenomenon occurring when adding a subwoofer properly? If so, do you have an explanation, or theory as to why the proper integration of a subwoofers deep bass causes all these other areas to be affected as they are? I think this question alone could be the topic of a great discussion...
I'm listening to: Metaphora by Altered Laws Jazz Quartet
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
"Up instead of down" is more of a precautionary measure than anything else. For clean bass, subwoofer output should not overlap excessively with main driver output. Trying to use the lowest possible crossover setting, combined with the highest possible volume setting, helps to prevent this from happening.Some people who try this method for the first time initially think that they are not hearing strong bass, but later come to realize that they are hearing clean bass and smooth bass transitions for the first time. The bottom two octaves should not be heard so much as felt.
Finding subwoofers that produce clean, strong bass 20 - 40 hz is not always easy or inexpensive, and that's one reason why some of us give up on the pursuit of truly deep bass extension, and settle for mediocre bass extension. Good luck with your project.
Edits: 08/19/14
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