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I'll be there Friday (tomorrow) only, but I know others on Hi-Eff are going Saturday. If anyone's going, we should connect and report out on the good rooms before audio show delirium sets in.
Follow Ups:
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Was very nice to see everybody!
My Friday experiences pretty much followed other comments;
- first time I heard the Sardurni Staccato horns in the Merrill room, they were playing an RTR of a jazz trio appearing that night upstairs; nice that they plugged the group, but it didn’t do anything to show the horns. Later Friday, better material and they were GREAT – in the back of the room. Those horns needed more room to breathe.
- Classic’s speakers were good, agree with other comments; wish I could hear either set of those speakers more than once a year or so. Like in my living room. Oh, well.
- AN room was surprisingly good. Missed the Volti room somehow. Contrary to the rest, I was underwhelmed by the Wilsons this time out.
- I liked the Thrax Spartacus amps in the Hifi Imports room; push-pull DHT’s, interstage coupled triode driver, fixed bias, choke input supply; checked all the boxes for me, and they sound great.
- Fremer’s sessions were great.
- PONO session was informative – but odd. I figured at the least they would have a few set up for listening demos.
- Best part, my daughter went with. She learned a lot, but simply couldn't believe the big bucks being asked.
Looking forward to next year!
Great summary by GH which pretty much mirrors my experiences!
Michael Fremer's Fri. turntable set up clinic was great! He does'nt come across on the web sometimes as being an easy going guy, but while doing his stuff with a cartridge he's funny, entertaining and educational, all the while doing some very fiddly stuff while the CD listening photographer was giving him a humorous hard time. Virtually everything that could have been covered in an hour was addressed, and he allowed for many points of view existing in the art of cartridge set up.
Trends:
More R2R tape again as GH notes, and more sources of tapes too. Whether we'll see new R2R's being manufactured again is a good question. More tube amps in more rooms than seen at the 90's shows, and less difference in sound between tubes and SS, with the transistor stuff getting better and the tube stuff becoming more consistent. As in the 90's, horns and SET's are talked about more than seen at these shows. I actually liked the Wilson speakers as GH did, which is unusual for me. The latest evolution of the Watt Puppy looks a bit like a mini Wilson Max, and seems to follow a trend away from the "one seat sweet spot". I would say the same about the Magicos I heard at this show too.
Some of the rooms at the Westin have permanent names instead of numbers, and the rooms were also known by the sponsors names on the signs near the door, which was a bit confusing when discussing which rooms you had liked.
The Sardurni Staccato horns were in the Merrill room (aka the Burton room). They were better known as the big red horns. A friend who is not really a horn fan took me in there on Fri. after declaring them one of the best sounding rooms at the show. I had miixed feeling due to some of the music being played, and the too close front seat I had. Coming back on Sat. I got a center back row seat, and was quite impressed. Very dynamic, with good imaging as long as you don't get too close. Best horns at the show, which for me makes them the best speakers at the show. While talking in the hallway with Jorge, 2 different people came out of the room and said they usually did'nt like horns, but liked these.
The Hartsfields in the C.A.R. room had a very wide apart spacing again to accommodate the smaller C.A.R. speakers set up between them, which left a big hole in the middle with the sound. Last year the room was so big you could get back far enough to compensate for this. Though they still sounded very good, I've heard them sound much better with more optimal placement.
The new Volti horns were a big improvement over the ones shown at last years show. Much better imaging with some bass on the bottom now.
The Pono presentation late Fri. left me scratching my head! It was an hour long talk about Pono, with no music being played! I was expecting a demonstration where MP3, lossless file and hi-res versions of the same tracks could be compared, which would have been a lot more informative. There should'nt be more talking about equipment than playing music.
Jeff Merkel's Loudspeaker and Room Measurement Seminar on Sat. was good, and basically expanded on what you could learn from the REW instructions which are rather long on how-it-works but short on practical application and interpreting the data.. He talked very fast and heroically covered a lot of territory.
It looks like the 2015 Axpona will be back at the Westin again. In the restaurant I heard some horror stories from one of the exhibitors about the hotel used at the 2013 show. If you're a cheapskate like me, remember you can park in the train parking lot 2 blocks south of the Westin for $5.
Paul
Dont know how I manage to miss all of you guys. Did anyone listen to the horn system that was made in WI on the fourth floor (418)? JTR speaker designer Jeff used what look like a CD horn with BMS drivers and flanked by two 15 inch woofers. Real world Internet direct pricing...
I like the BIG RED horns, the VoLTi system and John's CAR speakers too.
Looks like the FOSTEK T500MK2 needs to be on my radar - they are over $2000 a pair now from Madisound...
Kwing Y Lee
Kwing - I must have passed room 418 and missed both you and those WI horns!
Look up www.jtrspeakers.com
I spent a lot of time in the Marten and Convergent Audio Technology room. The Martens are the only speakers (other than the Wilson's) that can exhibit horn dynamics but unfortunately cost $32K.
Kwing Y Lee
Kwing
I don't recall the JTR horns, and the website does'nt have any pics of them. I also seemed to have missed the Marten Convergent room. Unfortunately there was so much to see that if the music being played did'nt grab you on looking in, you might miss something. The only Wilsons I've heard that can compete with a big horn rig is the Wilson Maxx (at approx $100K) and they were not at this show. BTW G.H.'s big horn rig, and yours too, could easily run with the best stuff at the show in my humble opinion. It still takes a horn to catch a horn! As to the pricey direct radiator stuff at the show, the Polymer Acoustics speakers (@ $60K) sounded very good, and were notable for their diamond diaphragms and mysterious "not aluminum" alloy cabs. I briefly heard the YG's, around which there is a lot of hype. They sounded quite dynamic for a DR, but were balanced towards a highly detailed type of sound which may become fatiguing longer term. To be fair I'd have to spend more time listening to them. On the lower price end, Wharfdale had a very nice $1200 pair of small speakers with streamlined wood cabs, which looked and sounded like they cost much more.
Paul
the Wharfdales at AXPONA have impressed me for two straight years now, for what they are and the $ they go for
Great day yesterday. Good seeing you, Paul and Bean. Most rooms play that ultra-saturated "audiophile" music indicative of hi-fi show demos. I don't last long in those rooms. I found myself spending the most time in rooms that were playing music that wasn't expressly made to demo audio equipment.
The big news this year was tape. Last year, I only saw one or two rooms with tape including International Phonographic in the TAD room. This year, there were at least six rooms playing tape.
I certainly didn't hit every room, but here were the rooms I found myself spending the most time in with my natural preference for hi-eff/horns (in no particular order):
• Classic Audio - No 30Hz hum from the rooftop A/C units this year. He is using a TAD 4001 style 2" driver with TrueXtent BE diaphragms and then replaces the magnet with a field coil. He also equips his 15" woofers with field coils. He was running a 3-way horn with ported bass reflex and the classic Hartsfields. Looked like a Fostex T500 mkii. Both sounded nice, but my personal preference would be for the Hartsfields. They have that musical vintage sound. The lens doesn't look like it should work, but it does! I like these guys who produce everything themselves (at least for the most part) and are independent of a large corporation trying to maximize profit.
• Sardurni - I would have liked to talk with about his horns, but I ran out of time. I'm curious what drivers he uses for the midrange and mid-bass. Both looked tractrix to me. The Romy-style mid-bass must be 115-130 Hz or so and a very small throat (3" or less) which should improve the upper range response. He paired with Johnathan from International Phonographic who does jazz recordings straight to master tape and then offers copies directly from that master. This sounded really good on the horns. There really is no substitute for an upper-bass horn. The ported 15" boxes at the show sounded mushy by comparison. The midrange/tweeter seemed to be a little closed in sounding. It's tough to get four octaves out of one 350Hz midrange horn with a Fostex T500 on top. He was running Merrill monoblocks. I'm curious how the horns would sound with a nice SET amp or with separate lower midrange/upper midrange horns.
• Volti - The third dedicated horn system at the show. Last year, he brought the La Scala style horns. The problem with last year's setup was the midrange and tweeter were firing at chair-level. This year, he shifted the midrange horn to vertical orientation which gives a better ear-level midrange sound. It looked a little wonky though. He's using a 15" bass reflex below. I wonder if he could prop up the La Scala horn to bring the midrange to ear level on that model. This is another nice room to visit.
• Doshi Audio - I typically haven't liked Wilsons, but with good music and Doshi electronics, this was another room with good sound. Another tape room too. He was running a Technics deck into his tape preamp. Seemed like a good guy.
• Audio Note (UK) - This room wasn't on my hit list at all——I stumbled in and was surprised by the sound they were getting from a fairly inexpensive 2-way monitor (8" woofer, silk dome tweeter, single back-firing port). The system had a very pleasant musicality and they were playing great music.
• The highlight of the show for me was what unfolded in the Audio Note room. Charles King showed up with his Stellavox loaded with his Cello electronics and several dupes from the original master tapes. There were only a few of us in the room at the time. We started with Ella Fitzgerald from "Epitaph." Now this is my type of music. It sounded like real music. Then he played what sounded like a simple one-mic jazz recording from Chuck Israels. Then some classical with Kodalay. All the while, I held a Rubber Soul dupe in my hands waiting to hear it. We played a few tracks. Charles is presenting today (Saturday) with a few other tape heads. I'd love to hear those tapes and that deck on my horns!
Enjoy the show!
Charles King's Stellavox with ABR adapters. Hard to discern, but that blue blur when slowed down clearly says Rubber Soul.
Thanks for that good information GH!
I had a quick listen and a nice chat with Jorge about his design.
8 inch driver in the big horn. Time aligned, and first order I believe.
Titanium with plastic surround in the midrange compression driver,
and a Fostex 500 on top. Startling dynamics at times, I loved that.
The tone is different from my phenolic loaded horns.
Finishes looked amazing from the listening chairs.
All in all, quite amazing to have someone put all that together.
Mats
Thanks for the update, Mats.I hope Jorge is able to bring in some orders from the show. It's a nice-looking and sounding setup, and for a guy not interested in embarking on a lifetime mission of DIY, UPS could deliver to the front door for $40k! Plus there is a very small chance that with the nice finish of the horns, that this bon vivant's wife would allow the horns in the living room, which sadly is out of the question with my arrangement (basement/kid's playroom). I'd have one suggestion for that man——have your wife pick out the color then talk about placement!
The 8" driver makes sense from the small throat size he chose. I'm happy with my 8" Fane Studio 8Ms. They specs say 103db——a bit of an anomaly in 8" land. If Jorge's 4-way goes well, I think we can expect a 5-way next, splitting up the midrange into upper and lower, which I'd love to listen to in a few years.
The plastic surround is a good choice. It reduces the harshness of the metal diaphragm (like phenolic) but retains the detail. Does anyone know of a current production titanium diaphragm with plastic surround? I'm curious...
Edits: 04/28/14
I was hoping Jorge would bring in at least 1 order from the show, mine :)
Unfortunately I don't think I have the room for the Staccato. But lordy was that a great sounding room. I was wondering what they would sound like with a nice SET, until about 2 min into listening and then I forgot all about that. I was really surprised it sounded that good w Class D amps. Kudos to Merrill. After hearing this room and the CAR Hartsfields, most everything else I listened to sounded a bit lethargic and cadaveric. There were other good sounding rooms, I especially liked the Devore room, both the Gibbon X and 96's, nice relaxing, musical sound. But the Hartsfields and Staccato were very special indeed. Time to knock a wall out.....
It's a testament to how much a well-designed upperbass horn can add to an otherwise simple system. Apart from the large horn, it's just a few sealed subwoofers, a midrange horn, and tweeter——all known entities. But the upper bass horn——that linchpin——where the fundamental of most instruments and voices originate, that is where the soul of the music hides.
I have listed on CAM, my mahogany 140hz LeCleach horns as I am afraid they are just too big for my room. I have had no bites (actually not true, lots of bites, but no one knows how to make them into a system) here in the great white north (American living/working in Toronto, moved up 2+ yrs ago). I decided to finally build the system and sell it as a complete system and sell it as a whole.
All this talk of midbass horns being the quintessential makes me want to build and keep them. We shall see.
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"When Khruschev said "we will bury you" I don't think he meant with surplus parts." zacster
only as well. I plan on the Vinyl Lives seminar, then Fremer's turntable set-up. Will likely stay for the PONO demo. Long day.
Great Bean. Paul Eizik and I are planning to check out the Fremer session too. The Tape Project is on my list and the few horn rooms. See you there.
Fremer's turntable presentation is a must on Fri. @ 12:15, as well as the Pono presentation @ 6-7 PM, making for a long day. There's a rumor that Neil Young may attend. On Sat. there's Fremer again @ 10:15 AM; a presentation of Loudspeaker and Room Measurement with REW @ 11:45; and a Hi-Res Audio demo @ 4:45. Every hour of testing with REW over here is followed by an hour of head scratching, so that will be eagerly anticipated. John Wolf's C.A.R. Heartsfield repros will be back, and should be the big horn rig to beat again. See you there guys!
Paul
Jorge Sardurni will have his 4 way 110 dB horn system playing tunes, brought all the way from Mexico City. Hes a GOOD guy, give him a listen !!Jeff Medwin
Edits: 04/25/14
2nd great show in a row. I look for real life prices. Sonist speakers were amazing for very low price and good with tubes. Benchmark room amp, and speakers for stand-mounts. Vandersteen Treos for $6500 just great. KEF LS50, shockingly room filling. Salk Sound and Van Alstine always good. Really like the Sonists. Snake River cables also very nice.
Too bad the auction was a bust. I think they started bids too high.
bigshow
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