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In Reply to: RE: More ribbons posted by gluca on March 20, 2014 at 12:53:57
Please keep us informed. I am in the midst of finally putting my system together, working out the crossover details. My system looks quite a bit like yours. I am using an AE TD15X for bass, using the same Iwata 300 horn with Radian 950PBe and was going to play around with the Beyma TPL-150H of the Fostex tweeters you sold me a while back up top. I am very interested in the RAAL lazy ribbons, but mostly in how to actually getting useful response out of that to work in a system.
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"When Khruschev said "we will bury you" I don't think he meant with surplus parts." zacster
Follow Ups:
JoshK - You seem to be looking at the RAAL response graph where SPL rises gradually from 107 db at 10k Hz to just over 110 db at 16k Hz then down to 109.5 db at 20k Hz. If you're crossing above 10k, I wouldn't see this "hill" as noticeable. I would think that there would be more significant abnormalities with measurement instruments than a 3db rise in this frequency range. Contrast this with the amount hearing deteriorates with age and a 3db rise seems negligible. I can't comment on how the RAAL would perform crossing much lower than 10k Hz. I wouldn't think they'd be a good option, but I've never tried.
I'd recommend trying what you have first and then identify the problem areas. You may find that your 300 Hz Iwata horn may not sound how you want it as it stretches up past three or four octaves; that may make the tweeter decision for you. You may find that you that you need to cross lower than 10k Hz or add an upper midrange horn to reduce beaming the higher frequencies. All this is impossible to see on paper.
I am of the engineering mindset (not an engineer, but math background). I was planning to cross in the 5.5k-7k region before the breakup of a 4" diaphragm and the impending directivity collapse. So, the RAAL looks not so great. I really don't think I'd bother if I was just going to cross at 10k unless it was super shallow (6db/oct) as my hearing above 10k in my right ear is suspect (left is pretty much fine).
I have the B&C DE35, the Fostex super tweeter (forget the model) that gluca sold me somewhere around a year ago, the Beyma 150H. As you can tell, I like to experiment. I just like wide open sound and hate beaming. I used to own a few different planar speakers (and other types) but the beaming drove me mental.
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"When Khruschev said "we will bury you" I don't think he meant with surplus parts." zacster
The RAAL doesn't sound like the right choice. Sounds like you have all the components together for round one. Report back and let me know how it goes.
If you find the Fostex to be a little tizzy sounding, the EV T350 that Mats mentioned with its phenolic diaphragm is an interesting alternative. It's more of an anti-tweeter. It doesn't have great HF extension, but it's incredibly smooth and integrates well down low——even when crossing first-order.
If I were to place importance on elements of a horn system, the tweeter would be dead last. I'd spend the majority of time getting the upper-bass and midrange right. There's hardly any real music 10k Hz+. It's mostly overtones. Yes. A bad tweeter can make a system sound mechanical and unnatural. Visiting audio shows, it seems that some people actually like a heavy sizzle sound with a hockey stick bump above 8,500 Hz. For me, I don't want to even notice the tweeters. They should blend in. They should make the midrange sound more natural and take over in the break-up. There are a lot of great tweeters out there that achieve this. I happen to have the RAAL Lazy Ribbons (with amorphous cores) in my 5-way horn system. I'm really happy with them and I have little desire to change to something else. My only complaint is that in a multi-way horn system, they take up over 9" of precious vertical space (you can see in the picture that space is tight). Sound-wise they fit my criteria. They have a very natural non-metalic sound. They "complete" the midrange. The output can be configured to match the efficiency of other drivers by dialing in the impedance. Just consider your vertical and your horn placement configuration before going with the RAALs.
Edits: 04/18/14
How did you make your midbass horns? Those look very interesting.
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"When Khruschev said "we will bury you" I don't think he meant with surplus parts." zacster
They're made out of hard plaster, hemp, and burlap (over 300 lbs each). I used a layup method on top of a mold rather than inside a closed mold, and this took a lot of practice to get right. If I were to do it again, I would probably try a different, easier, method. It's a little deceiving from the angle of the picture, but they're actually elliptical with 54" wide x 34" high mouths (100 Hz full-space). I decided on elliptical rather than circular so the midrange can still be placed at ear level. The throat works out to a 3 1/2" diameter loaded with Fane Studio 8Ms. The expansion is hypex.
Those are awesome! I wish I had the space to make big horns like those.
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"When Khruschev said "we will bury you" I don't think he meant with surplus parts." zacster
Outside or a garage would work better than a basement. I speak from the experience of a man who is still cleaning up black powder!
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