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Need suggestions for set amp with @1.5 watt output. Small room, listen to mainly jazz and classical with a little prog rock. Sources are vinyl, cd, and open-reel. Thanks.
Follow Ups:
Avoid crossovers/multi driver arrangements. With a proper BLH no tweeter or sub is needed.
Apuesto Paul
You can use a variety of speakers of 90db and higher with 1.5 watt and get some kind of result -- I presently am running some 90db JBL LE8 8" cones with a 1.5W Zen amp -- but I would recommend going for as high efficiency as you can. At least 96db/w/m. You can fit a big speaker in a small room, but I would suggest for example:Lowther, maybe on open baffle
Speaker based on a concentric driver like Tannoy or Altec 604, maybe a 12" variant of same
Some sort of vintage setup like Altec Valencia, Klipsch Heresy, etc.
12" wideband driver like PHY-HP or, on a budget, Eminence Beta 12 with some sort of tweeter. A pair of Beta 12s in MTM with a tweeter crossed around 3500hz on open baffle, plus a subwoofer, is a cheap and fun way to get hi-eff.
Maybe something like an Audax PR170MO (6.5" midrange @ 100db) with a tweeter and something like a 12" woofer, possibly biamped.
Various biamping options, using the 1.5W amp on the compression driver tweeter above 900hz.
Yorkville U15, not too big for a small room, 100db
Edits: 03/30/12
and that also may be a bonus in a small room.
Not going thru a passive x/o could make your 1.5 watts sound like 3 or 6.
For recs: I owned a couple pairs of Omega Loudspeakers when I first started with SETs. A particularly nice pairing was a pair of Fi 2a3 monos driving the Omega Super 3r. I subbed some 45 tubes in the Fi's (with a rectifier change) which gave me less that 2 watts and the Omegas were "only" 93 db. Got a big "I can't believe this" from my wife when I put on a Patricia Barber CD. Me too.
It was hard to wrap my head around the fact that what I was hearing could be achieved with just a few watts. I pays to let go of preconceived notions.
Add a powered sub if you need it.
"Add a powered sub if you need it. "
That would be cheating. 1.5 watts - and no more!
lol
Have you considered the possibility that you should get an amp that's bigger than 1.5 watt? That'll greatly increase your speaker choices.
I'm just sayin'.
Hi, I have found over the years that a fostex fe167 full range speaker,(94 db/1w/1m), in a 42 liter cabinet, ported as per fostex diagram, with a ribbon tweeter on top, crossed over with a high quality .47uf capacitor, and a powered sub to lift the bottom end a little, beats everything else I've tried. I have used them with 45,(2watts), 2a3(4.5watts), 300b,(8 watts), and Pass Zen ,(10 watts). I achived good results on all but hard rock with the 45 amp. The sound was ,(is), outstanding IMO.
The sub and 2 way active xover is a must though.
I tried Klipsch lascala horns, which weren't right for my 12 by 24 by 8' room.
Bob
Well I have 110 db 4 way horn setup and I am running it at the moment with 1.5 watts, from 100 hz up. Under that I have a huge SS amp and 4 woofers per side.
With a preamp I barely make it, but yes I can play even big orchestral music at lively volumes!
Now this system is far from $ 1500
For that budget I would say Lowthers in open baffle, and try to get a pair of woofers in sealed boxes, Altec 416 would be nice and a chip amp to run it. DIY of course!
If you want to buy of the rack, then maybe a fullrange fostex in some box...
You do understand the quality keeps going down on this list....
Can I ask what makes your 1.5 watt amp so special?
the budget will determine the options. I like klipsch for lowish pricing and high efficiency. Cornwalls, la scalas or k-horns can get a LOT out of 1.5 watts (htough the k-horns may be too big for your room). DIY horn loaded treble and mid compression drivers with powered sub woofers is another way to go, takes a lot of time to tweak those right though. how much do you wish to invest? warm regards, Tony
Jean-Francois Lessard 2A3 PP amp
Marantz 7T Preamp
Klipschorns w/ALK xovers
Sony CX350&CX-230 cd changers
MSB link DACIII w24/96k
MSB digital director
Luxman PD-272 TT
Technics M85 Cassette
Hi Sunnysal, about $1500.00. Nice system you have btw.
thanks for the kind words...I love the way it makes music, not so sure that others would agree with my strange mix of components but, I have almost no desire to tweak or upgrade and have been off the rollercoaster of audio for almost 10 years now...good sign of musical satisfaction is it not?
regarding your dilemma, for $1,500 vintage becomes attractive. 1.5 watts is so very little that you need compression drivers in the top end and need to allow for somewhat less power to fill a room with bass. I love Klipsch cornwalls II and they are arguably 101db sensitive! (some people think that is optimistic, I have heard them really play loud and dynamically con 2A3 single end amps). Edgarhorns can play well with very little power. hard ot think of others that really can jump with that little juice (besides the other classic klipsch), IŽll keep thinking
Remember one thing, it is also important to present a nice, easy impedance load to your flea amp.
T
Jean-Francois Lessard 2A3 PP amp
Marantz 7T Preamp
Klipschorns w/ALK xovers
Sony CX350&CX-230 cd changers
MSB link DACIII w24/96k
MSB digital director
Luxman PD-272 TT
Technics M85 Cassette
...for your suggestions on speakers, now to check them out.
That is a place to start...or Reference 3A may also work given your listening preference.
I wouldn't say "high levels" with Klipsch however, perhaps "room filling to a satisfying level". As a disclaimer, I've had some 1 1/2 watt SE-OTL amps on my Khorns and they didn't cut the volume level. I bridged them to 4 watts and that didn't cut it either.
I finally tried an 8 watt 300B SET and it would have worked for 75% of my needs.
What is the room size and your distance from speakers? Floor standing speakers OK? How much bass do you need?
Hi Rick, It's pretty small about 15x13x13. Distance from speakers about 6 feet. I would like the bass to be there to give it some thud when listening to Paul Chambers or bass drum in an orchestra, don't need a rap music kind of thing.
.Given that the speaker is the most colored component in a system and your choice is limited by your budget and what will work in your room, once you find that speaker you then, and only then, look for an amp that will work with it.
Looking for a speaker to work with a particular amp that also works in your room, you can afford, and matches your taste is going at it from the wrong angle.
.
Edits: 03/25/12
How do you find that one special speaker for your room without putting an amp in front of it?"Looking for a speaker to work with a particular amp that also works in your room, you can afford, and matches your taste is going at it from the wrong angle."
Funny. Many would suggest that this is exactly what you should do. Who wants speakers that don't work with the amp, nor work with your room or even match your taste and which you can't afford?
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 03/28/12
.Of course you have to have an amp, but you missed my point. You have to start with something so it should be the component that most dominates the sound.... the speaker.
Decent amps sound more alike than different as long as they are reasonably able to drive the speaker so start with a decent amp that is capable of driving a variety of speakers.
Decent speakers sound night and day different than each other no matter what amp you drive them with. In this case a lot of speakers will be dismissed because 1.5 watts isn't enough to drive most of them. A lot of very fine speakers, maybe the ones he truly likes, are eliminated before he even starts.
An amp is like the spice on the food. If you don't like the taste of salmon (the speaker) there is just about nothing you can do spice wise (the amp) to cover it up. You have to start with a speaker that you find pleasing and fine tune the rest with the amp, pre, cables, etc. That truth is so glaringly obvious I'm dumbfounded somebody would think otherwise
Choosing speakers to go with an amp is like choosing a suit to go with your socks.
.
Edits: 03/28/12
I see where you are coming from. Have heard this discourse before. My understanding differs so best wishes with yours.
I'm mad enough to be guided in my choice of clothing that flatters my socks if my socks made me feel unlike anything else and I wanted to wear them only, since I'm not bothered about a hierarchy of clothing, so to speak. I'd also happily be guided in other ways, as part of my investigations. Truth versus TRUTH, so to speak, and so on ad infinitum.
Peace be with us all.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Sorry don't agree. But thanks anyway.
a system. Each interacting with the othe in subtle and not so subtle ways. Each with unique characteristics. There are some aspects of musical reproduction that seem to dwell in the domain of the amp moreso than the speaker and vice versa.
Perhaps the speaker dominates musical reproduction at the grossest level of generalisation/ understanding, but...
Cheers.
.
So let's say you get a good suggestion for speakers and you buy them and love the way they sound. The best speakers you have ever heard. They do everything exactly like you dreamed a speaker could but you have one small problem. Your amp doesn't have enough power to get them up to the listening levels you want.
Using your reasoning you have to get rid of the speakers and spend the rest of your life wishing you could once again achieve the perfect sound you had.
Using my reasoning you have to find a different amp.
Once you get to a certain level different amps have subtle differences but different models of great speakers have gross differences.
Good luck, you are going to need it.
.
I got a 45 amp in the 1.5w range, and for me Coaxial Speakers* in a open
baffles seem to work great. For DIY, 3 way green cone speakers seem to work well too. Dig around here http://www.lampizator.eu/ Horns while they have good a sound don't match well for small domestic systems.
* any brand you like over 96 dbm .
Lundahl Set 45.
> > > Horns while they have good a sound don't match well for small domestic systems. < < <Depends on what is horn loaded, what type of horns are used, and what is considered a 'small domestic system."
Seems to me that a two or three way, with wide dispersion horns (for tweet and mid, if used) and matched directivity should sound fine. The controlled directivity is actually a strong advantage. The efficient bass driver and its alignment could be designed to work well for use in a small room, with wall loading and the high output impedance of the SET amp... Such systems have been successfully realised.
Cheers.
Edits: 03/28/12
Leaving 12dB for the dynamics of a song (the absolute minimum for me, I usually work with 20dB) and using a 96dB/1W speakers the maximum listening volume with a 1.5w amp would be around 85.5dBSPL. Any louder and you are just adjusting distortion levels.
Might be ok to play modern, over-compressed pop at low volumes though.
Seems fine for the many people who consider average levels of 85 dB rather loud. A lot of folks around here would not consider 85 dB loud though. It will work for many, but not those that like what most would consider very loud.
Personally, I don't listen as loudly as most, but have opted for ~ 100 dB@1w spks and ~ 4 W SET amp to minimise the risk of running out of headroom for most music.
Cheers.
The proper way to use a 1.5w SET is in a active multiways horn speakers setting.
Basically, this is correct. A 1.5W amp is really a compression driver amp for 107db+ in a multiamp system.
Hi v-tube,
For a small room I would attempt to significantly reduce room reflection effects by using a relatively narrow pattern 60x60 or 60x40 horn. The diyaudio.com website has several theads on DIY construction of a type of Danley Synergy horn, including a 60x60 dispersion with > 105 db/watt down to 80 Hz. If you do not want to bi-amp the bass, a pair of BIG woofers wired in parallel can get > 100db/watt when room gain is included.
If your room dimensions allow corner horns to correctly project into the listening position, then using the 4x mirroring efficiency from the corner would be an excellent choice. pispeakers.com has a great whitepaper and several modest cost DIY corner horns. Klipsch horns are the natural used speaker choice. The Jubilee and Jamboree bass horns are DIY updates of Klipsch. The Radian 950pbl 2" compression driver on a LARGE 90x40 plastic horn would complete a hi-efficiency 2-way.
vintage klipsch. great full range sound and ultra-efficient. your 1.5 wat amp can run a huge speaker to high levels with klipsch.
-andre d
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