High Efficiency Speaker Asylum

Posted by FTT (A) on March 31, 2009 at 18:31:09

Is there anyone who tried Lowther drivers on JE Lab's open baffles?

Edits: 03/31/09

• RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - Paul Folbrecht 13:42:45 04/03/09 (5)
  In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by FTT on March 31, 2009 at 18:31:09

  This comment may not be welcome in this thread but to my ear a Supravox 8" field-coil driver (215) on an OB is everything a Lowther is, and more - it can go down to 50 Hz if you'd like it, with real output, and it keeps it together even on complex music (within sane SPL limits).
  
  Cost is not much more, I think.
  
  There is no peakiness whatsoever.
  
  

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  • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - chopper87@aol.com 07:43:39 04/04/09 (4)
    In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by Paul Folbrecht on April 03, 2009 at 13:42:45

    No your not welcome, now get outta here! ;)
    In reality I am not at all a Lowther devotee. If I had or hear something that I like better and can afford it, then I will own it and sing it's praises. I would love to hear your Supravox drivers. I had a good friend (rest his soul) who did own both your driver type and big ole Alnico Lowthers. He really liked them both a lot. However, when he had an issue with one of his Supravox drivers, off to France they went for an extended and expesive jouney. I really like the almost "modular" constuction and self repair potential of Lowther drivers. I have had Alnico and Neodymium (with and without high ferric coil treatment) Lowthers appart just to check the gap for anything foreign. With just a bit of practice one can take these things down to the bare bones and put them back together quickly and quite easily. So, big deal right? Well, when or if something ever happens to my Lowther's cone, coil, etc., then Lowther America sends (quickly) a replacement part, I put it back together and am up and running inside one week. I am not so paranoid of something happening to one of these drivers. If there is another driver update (this has been known to happen as frequently as once every 50 years or so, so be ready), then I'll just order new updated frames/cone coils and stick em on. Most of us have lived through the childs figers or the dogs nose creatively resculpting cones or domes to suit their desires.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    "This comment may not be welcome in this thread but to my ear a Supravox 8" field-coil driver (215) on an OB is everything a Lowther is, and more - it can go down to 50 Hz if you'd like it, with real output, and it keeps it together even on complex music (within sane SPL limits).
    
    Cost is not much more, I think.
    
    There is no peakiness whatsoever."
    
    
    
    
    

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    • Yes, Cyr-Marc's a good guy - Paul Folbrecht 11:06:42 04/08/09 (0)
      In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by chopper87@aol.com on April 04, 2009 at 07:43:39

      Way into the hobby, too; he build chip amps and has a massively decked-out dedicated listening room.
      
      

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    • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - Paul Folbrecht 14:25:12 04/06/09 (2)
      In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by chopper87@aol.com on April 04, 2009 at 07:43:39

      Chopper,
      
      You are (mostly) correct about the service issue - though the Canadian importer can perform (at least) some basic, simple repairs and that's faster/cheaper than going across the pond. It does seem that most all of the wideband HE drivers are a bit fragile which is a shame.
      
      The alnico Lowthers are certainly the best of the Lowthers. But, to me, unless a notch filter is used, or front-horn loading (as in the ingenious and wonderful Beauhorn), all Lowthers have that 'bite', and I can't tolerate it over time.
      
      Not only does the Supravox driver not have any bite, it is actually even mellow, at least at lower voltages. Note that this does *not* mean it is flat or undynamic! It just means it is smooth and natural while also being dynamic - much like live, unamplified acoustic music.
      
      I have heard that the alnico Supravox 215 sounds at least very close to the FC version. I don't know. If that's the case, it's Supravox's cone structure, and/or lack of a whizzer, that's responsible for it's flatter response and other characteristics.
      
      However, since other field coils I have heard, using totally disparate technology otherwise (compression-driver horns) have that same sense of smooth, natural ease, I have to believe that technology itself is responsible for some part of their character. (And, in fact, I find it rather neat that these drivers give you a good measure of that Cogent sound at 10% or less of the price.)
      
      Have you measured your baffles? Are they peaky in the 2-4 Khz region? Just curious. It may be that not all of the modern (rolled whizzer) Lowthers are peaky. I don't know.
      
      

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      • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - Retsel 13:12:57 04/14/09 (0)
        In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by Paul Folbrecht on April 06, 2009 at 14:25:12

        Yea, the 8 ohm variety Lowther drivers really need a trap to flatten the frequency response. Dick Olsher designed such a thing for the Basszilla speakers.
        
        I have the 15 ohm Lowthers which have much greater x-max, and they don't need a trap, only a single inductor in series with the driver, which simplifies the crossover circuit.
        
        Both of these Lowther drivers sound really, really great in open baffle speakers.
        
        Retsel
        
        

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      • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - chopper87@aol.com 10:04:13 04/08/09 (0)
        In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by Paul Folbrecht on April 06, 2009 at 14:25:12

        I Almost had the pleasure of owning a pair of Field coil Supravox drivers about six months ago. Unfortunately things did not work out and I never had the pleasure. However, I did contact the Canadian Supravox distrbutor several times to inquire about these drivers. This man was very friendly and unselfishly helpful. If he also handles repairs, then North America's Supravox owners are in very good hands.
        
        Lance
        
        

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• Thanks to share your experience. (NT) - FTT 07:45:39 04/03/09 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by FTT on March 31, 2009 at 18:31:09

  (NT)
  
  

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• They work extemely well... - Scott F. 20:00:38 04/01/09 (3)
  In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by FTT on March 31, 2009 at 18:31:09

  

  I agree with Chopper, though I didn't build the JE Lab OB, I came up with my own design. I cut mine off at 125hz and use Altec 416s to fill in the bass duties (bi-amped via an active crossover). This pic is while I was still using my 15" Goodmans for the bass.
  
  Watch EnjoyTheMusic.com over the next couple of months as I've got an article that details my OB (basic) construction and my Lowther journey over the past six or so years.
  
  In a nutshell, Lowthers in an OB using a sub to fill in the bass are simply stunning. The sound is even top to bottom and the OB design throws a HUGE soundstage. I've searched for a lot of years trying to reach this sound and unlike others, I seriously doubt I'll ever go back to conventional speakers again.
  
  

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  • RE: They work extemely well... - JoshK 17:59:38 04/07/09 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: They work extemely well... posted by Scott F. on April 01, 2009 at 20:00:38

    Now you are getting close to the Basszilla...just add a ribbon tweeter and change the crossover some...
    ----------------
    "When Khruschev said "we will bury you" I don't think he meant with surplus parts." zacster
    
    

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  • RE: They work extemely well... - somejoe 05:49:46 04/02/09 (1)
    In Reply to: RE: They work extemely well... posted by Scott F. on April 01, 2009 at 20:00:38

    What are the dimensions of your OB and what is the mounting height (to the center of the Lowther driver)?
    
    TIA,
    
    
    

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    • RE: They work extemely well... - Scott F. 19:21:34 04/02/09 (0)
      In Reply to: RE: They work extemely well... posted by somejoe on April 02, 2009 at 05:49:46

      They are 53" tall and 15" wide.
      
      

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• RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - chopper87@aol.com 19:14:49 04/01/09 (5)
  In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by FTT on March 31, 2009 at 18:31:09

  Lowther drivers (Alnico based drivers in particular) sound STUNNINGLY good in open baffle application. I have many many full/wide range drivers (almost all eight inchers) that I have used in bass reflex, Transmisson line, front and back horns. I accidently tried a pair of Lowther drivers in a just built pair of JE Labs open baffles prior to packing up these particular Lowthers for sale. Well, I still have these Lowther drivers but now in a more attractive and narrower open baffle backed up by a pair of Tone Tubby Alnico Hemp cones from 200 HZ and below. I still choose to allow my Lowthers' to run full range though. Keep in mind when running eight inch Lowthers in the JE Labs baffles you will need help from a subwoofer close to around 100 HZ and below. I still use a pair of subs with my Lowther/TT setup. I will likely never go back to a non-open baffle setup again. There is just soooo much more real life there. Most of my other full/wide range drivers also sound their best in open baffles.
  
  
  
  

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  • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - Tom Brennan 00:59:48 04/02/09 (4)
    In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by chopper87@aol.com on April 01, 2009 at 19:14:49

    So they sound good as long as you don't expect any bass eh? Swell.
    
    

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    • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - chopper87@aol.com 07:49:13 04/02/09 (3)
      In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by Tom Brennan on April 02, 2009 at 00:59:48

      Tom,
      
      "So they sound good as long as you don't expect any bass eh? Swell."
      
      No, they sound GREAT as long as you don't expect any bass. And, the same is basically true of each and every eight incher that I place alone in any of my open baffles (some smallish, some quite large). All of these single 8" drivers reach their lowest bass potential in the floor reinforcing position within the JE Lab's baffles. However, don't expect anything beloww around 100 HZ or so. But, my two corner loaded T-line 10 inch subwoofers dialed in just below 100 HZ fill in smoothly with the Lowthers. It sounds fantastic! So open, alive, and spokky organic. However, don't expect much midbass snap. After all it's only an eight inch driver. That is why I followed the lead of several others and tried the renowned 12" Alnico Hemp cone Tone Tubby in the bottom of a taller yet way narrower baffle. I have already discussed crossover points. The Alnico Lowthers and the TT's gel,mesh together seamlessly, so now I have the magic of the Lowther plus pleanty of snap. Hey, nothing is close to perfect in audio reproduction, but, this speaker setup floats my boat like nothing ever has since the mid-1970's.
      
      
      
      
      
      

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      • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - Retsel 13:23:13 04/03/09 (2)
        In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by chopper87@aol.com on April 02, 2009 at 07:49:13

        I disagree with one point made above. The Lowthers are very good (outstanding if enABLed) at midbass snap, which is above 100 hz.
        
        To see what I mean, try playing some great midbass music with only your subwoofers playing (your Lowthers are disconnected or turned off), and hear how much midbass that your subwoofers are playing - none.
        
        Retsel
        
        

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        • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - chopper87@aol.com 08:00:05 04/04/09 (1)
          In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by Retsel on April 03, 2009 at 13:23:13

          Restel,
          
          Always good to hear/read from you. I don't have an opinion about the "enABLed" stuff, but I absolutely agree with you about Lowthers plus subwoofers generally means little midbass snap. However, I guess that by subwoofing we mean 100 HZ and below, right? When I had my big ole Alnico Lowthers in the JE Labs open baffles with only a pair of subwoofers filling in around 100 HZ and below, the sound was/is spooky alive, open, airy and full of tone and air. BUT, there is not much midbass snap (hencen the original "not perfect statement". An issue that is easily rectified. do yourself a taller yet narrower pair of baffles, (not talking to you with this stuff Restel, you already know it well) add a bass/midbass driver and now you have snap also.
          
          
          "To see what I mean, try playing some great midbass music with only your subwoofers playing (your Lowthers are disconnected or turned off), and hear how much midbass that your subwoofers are playing - none.
          
          Retsel"
          
          
          
          

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          • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - Retsel 13:05:37 04/14/09 (0)
            In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by chopper87@aol.com on April 04, 2009 at 08:00:05

            Well, I don't agree with this statment. Lowthers do have quite a lot of midbass snap, if the amps are good. My point about the enABL treatment is that the Lowthers greatly improve in dynamics greatly improving on the midbass snap.
            
            Whatever woofers that you might add will have no impact on midbass snap because these frequencies are dealt with by the midrange driver.
            
            Retsel
            
            

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• RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - Brian C. 23:44:32 03/31/09 (3)
  In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by FTT on March 31, 2009 at 18:31:09

  Lowther drivers are linearly descended from Voigt's original design which was intended for front horn use, hence their rising response and severely limited excursion capability. They are not a proper choice for wide band OB service although they have been used quite successfully on open baffles in multi-way systems where early LF roll-off is introduced to limit excursion.
  
  Brian.
  
  

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  • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - Retsel 13:18:03 04/03/09 (1)
    In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by Brian C. on March 31, 2009 at 23:44:32

    I agree with your summary of the Lowther driver's initial design, but not with your assessment of Lowther's performance in open baffle designs.
    
    Granted, they were not designed for open baffle speakers, but they work oustandingly well in that service. It is true that you cannot expect to plug and play them in open baffle service. But if you use the 15 ohm variety, which has 3mm of x-max, and apply the appropriate crossover components, which are not very complex (only a single inductor in the signal path), then they are quite amenable to open baffle service, and in fact, excel in that service. The thin paper driver, as it turns out, was not so amenable to backhorns and any compression chamber designed speaker, because of the ease for reflected sound to echo back through the driver, and because the cone can deflect easily due to backpressure causing distortion.
    
    I would enABL the Lowthers to make them world class.
    
    Retsel
    
    

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    • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - Brian C. 04:59:54 04/04/09 (0)
      In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by Retsel on April 03, 2009 at 13:18:03

      If you reread my post Retsel you will see I make positive mention of their use in OBs when in a multi-speaker system.
      
      It was specifically their use in the JE Labs baffle, which was designed for broadband drivers like the WE 755, that I was discouraging.
      
      ;o)
      
      Brian.
      
      

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  • RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB - FTT 05:32:25 04/01/09 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Lowther on JE Lab OB posted by Brian C. on March 31, 2009 at 23:44:32

    Then it may not be worth to try it.
    
    Thanks.
    
    

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