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In Reply to: RE: Higher "Rez" Seems to Offer Lower Overall Quality posted by jaydacus on September 24, 2016 at 10:00:39
I just got a Mytek Brooklyn, and I am experiencing the opposite effect. All the music sounds very good. Red Book CD rips sound great, as does 24/96kHz.It's actually left me wondering, for a few weeks really, if the real issue with "high rez" music isn't the data, but the DAC's. Whether instead of hearing anything intrinsic to the data captured on file if we are in fact hearing differences in how well a particular DAC handles each format?
Part of this is whether we hear a difference at all. The other part though is how we interpret those differences. It's no secret that most listeners often think any difference is "better"
What if a supremely perfect DAC played back all of these formats with the same subjective quality? Would we then attack the DAC claiming it was not revealing enough no matter what?
Best,
Erik
Edits: 10/03/16Follow Ups:
Whether instead of hearing anything intrinsic to the data captured on file if we are in fact hearing differences in how well a particular DAC handles each format?
Simple way to determine that - compare both versions of the same content using the same high quality DAC. I've done that with my Audio Research DAC8 and remain convinced that Redbook is inherently flawed at the top of the spectrum.
It's true that many, if not most DACs use legacy op amps for analog output which have never floated my boat. I greatly prefer those using discrete output devices supplied with a stiff power supply independent from the digital circuitry.
See, that's exactly what you can't do. You can't really tell if it's the music, or if the DAC itself is not performing as well.
As a matter of fact, my previous DAC was the ARC DAC 8, and that's exactly what it sounded like. The Mytek Brooklyn however sound great regardless of format between Redbook and 96/24. DSD sounds a tiny smidgen better.
So, if I say the Mytek sounds great with all formats, are you going to say it's not playing hi rez well enough?
Do you see the biases we are subject to?
BTW, I don't have an answer to this. I just don't think either position is provable.
Best,
Erik
So, if I say the Mytek sounds great with all formats, are you going to say it's not playing hi rez well enough?
Define "great". If you cannot tell the difference between a Redbook version of a recording and a truly high resolution version, then I would opine that something is wrong.
Do you see the biases we are subject to?
Not at all. With an open mind, I've compared about half a dozen versions of recordings in LP, Redbook and either 24/96 or 24/192. I observe what I consistently hear.
YMMV.
I believe your observations, but I think we have biases into what we ascribe the results to.We are both agreed on the following:
The ARC DAC 8 plays high rez files better than redbook.
Of the two of us only I have experience with the Mytek, but another Asylum member has agreed with this statement:
The Mytek DAC plays Redbook as well as High rez.
This is not something youy and I agree on, but let's agree to hypothesize this was true so we can get to bias in attribution.
You say the Mytek is clearly faulty. I say the ARC was faulty. :)
I'm just as guilty of bias as anyone else so I'm happy to also yield that point that my attribution is also the result of bias.
My point is, we are each attributing cause/effect in opposite ways, without any real way to resolve the discrepancy at this time.
Best,
ERik
Edits: 10/11/16
The Mytek DAC plays Redbook as well as High rez.
If that's true comparing the same recording using 16/44 vs. a true high resolution format, I would replace it.
My point is, we are each attributing cause/effect in opposite ways, without any real way to resolve the discrepancy at this time.
Ask any engineer who has compared the same feed captured in 16/44 vs 24/96 or 24/192. Like inmate Tony Lauck who has participated in this thread. He is both an engineer and music lover and creates his own recordings.
Ask him if he thinks that the Redbook standard is audibly identical to higher resolutions. :)
I could ask a thousand recording engineers.
What they could not tell me is which of the two issues are true:
1 - DAC's play Hi Rez files better because there's more data.
2 - DAC's play Hi Rez files better because the DAC's are performing differently.
If they listened to the Mytek, they may come to the belief that 2 is correct. If the ARC, that 1.
For me, Mytek has fixed Redbook. You say It's broken Hi Rez. :)
By the way, I find the Mytek superior to the DAC 8 in all formats. That's why I traded.
Best,
Erik
There are others who claim that high resolution offers no audible benefits.I am most certainly not one of them!
To each his own. :)
edit: Just curious. Which recordings have you compared the same content in both 16/44 and 24/96 versions?
Edits: 10/11/16
Interesting that you mention the Mytek Brooklyn. I last week listened to a system which employed the Mytek Manhattan DAC. Suffice it to say, I've never heard anything like the quality of sound produced, by that system, particularly the open, airy, shimmery highs such as cymbals. Also, the bass, oh my, the bass pressurization was so frigging deep and visceral. Now, granted that these were big speakers, but I've heard big speakers before.
And what was playing was "only" CD quality tracks on a pc connected to the DAC with a USB cable. I had just attended the symphony a few days earlier, and the cymbals produced by the system sounded the closest to what I heard at the symphony than any reproduced audio I've ever heard.
I really like the looks of the Manhattan. I've never heard one but it seems to have every type of input and output I would need including an optional phono stage. I was really thinking of buying one about a year ago but I didn't want to spend $5k.
I found another DAC that completely satisfies my ears and it cost 1/5th the price of the Manhattan. Besides being an excellent sounding DAC, it is also an autonomous digital player as well as a digital recorder. I bought it to copy vinyl to DSD-5.6MHz, but it serves as an excellent digital player, too. It is the TASCAM DA-3000 DSD recorder .
> I've never heard anything like the quality of sound produced, by [the Manhattan], particularly the open, airy,
> shimmery highs such as cymbals. Also, the bass, oh my, the bass pressurization was so frigging deep and visceral.
I feel exactly the same about my TASCAM DA-3000, but I don't know how it compares to the Manhattan because I've never heard a Manhattan. The TASCAM produces exquisite highs and deep, tight, natural bass. It makes very accurate and transparent copies of vinyl, the best I've ever heard. The best part about the TASCAM DA-3000 is that it costs only $1000. Therefore, if you're on a tight budget but you want high-end sound quality, check out the TASCAM DA-3000 DSD recorder. It is really much more than just a digital recorder. It is also an autonomous digital player that accepts a USB flash drive directly into its front-panel USB port for playback of PCM up to 24/192 as well as DSD-2.8MHz and 5.6MHz. It can also be used as a DAC for streaming from an external source.
Best regards,
John Elison
Right? It's a very good sounding DAC. My one concern however is that it sounds better new than after being broken in.... but i'm still unpacking and my living room is a horrible mess.
Best,
Erik
Usually when new it is bright. This always sounds initially appealing but not in the long run. You will adjust to the brokin in sound of the dac and eventually like it
Alan
I believe you, but it wasn't bright so much as cool.
First 24-48 hours it was hard. Then smooth and cool for the rest of the week, but still very "fast" sounding, especially with bass notes. Then that wore down as well.
Most interesting was the attack of notes. It was pretty dramatic, as if dynamic range was being expanded... but that wore down. Again, hard to tell if I'm just more used to it.
Again, it's hard to tell since I haven't listened in a stable acoustic environment, with boxes, furniture moving, etc.
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