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Considering either that or the Tascam DR-680 MK 2 for 24/192 work, but the DSD option might make it nice to leave a recording venue with all that I can. I would probably not use the mic pres in the DR-680 except for some not-so-critical location recordings.
Comments are greatly appreciated by owners of either.
Jim Tavegia
Follow Ups:
My Tascam DR-680 mk 2 ($599) arrived on Friday and I am really impressed. Pretty intuitive right out of the box, but my experience with both of my Tascam DR-2ds and DR-07 mk1s has given me some ideal of Tascam's operational keys. It will operate as a 2 channel recorder at 24/192 and 6 channels at 24/96, redbook, or even some MP3 formats if you choose. I will stay 90% of the time at 24/96, but will do some 16/44.1 work as needed to save the computer file reduction work. It has 4 built-in mic pres as well and all the input levels can be controls inside the user interface.
I am using it as a 6 channel tracking recorder. The mics pres are more than serviceable and at least the equal of the ones in my Yamaha MG16XU. I will have to do some recording with my Mackie to see if they are the equal of the VLZ models, but the Mackie mic pres are very nice. A new Mackie 1604 VLZ might be a nice input device for this Tascam DR-680 if the mic pres are more important to you. I find that it is the combination of mics and mic pres that must be considered as a whole system as they each have their colorations even if they measure flat. You have to worry about what each brings and experiment with different mics and find the ones that work the best with the Tascam mic pres. Tascam has made some changes to this MK 2 mic pres to improve the sound as many are using it as a master recorder for film so the on-board better mic pres will be important for them. I am thinking of at least buy one True Solo or a Focusrite ISA One for a huge mic pre upgrade for solo vocalists like myself.
I have made some recordings at both 24/192 and 24/96 and I can't tell an improvement with 24/192, (I know mathematically it is better, but that my hearing deficiencies hold me back, but many of you younger folks with great ears probably could and would like it as a needle-drop recorder for two channel work at 24/192. I will do some recording for clients with great hearing and let them tell me if they can hear the improvement of 24/192. If mixing down to redbook, 2496 is probably enough to start with.
I am now enjoying the opportunity to track with just the DR-680 and then feed the output into my Yamaha MG16XU and do a final mix into one of my DR-2ds at 24/96. This allows me to not worry at all about recording levels, other than keeping them below "0", as I can do the final balance in the Yamaha board and add effects as needed. This is a huge plus for me as I have often taken more time just to do the balancing in two track recordings, which often requires multiple takes. Now that is all out the window and can just track and then agonize over the sound in the mixdown.
Think of all the fun guys had over the years with the Teac 3340 4-track R2R recorders and now to be able to do that, with even better sound and 2 additional channels in a very portable device as no one would have thought of the Teac 3340 as "portable" without some help. lol
Highly recommended. My sales person at Sweetwater Sound, Ben Porter, has been a great help. He can help you as well.
Who could have thought one could have this much fun for so little money.
Highly recommended.
Jim Tavegia
Received my new DA-3000 last week for a very nice price.
I purchased it to use solely as a DAC, based on the nice reviews for it's dual-mono power supply design and it bests my old DAC considerably.
Channel separation and sound stage increase was the first thing I noticed but the background noise level decrease became obvious after several hours listening. The sound quality delivered I believe is well above the price point on this one.
You can also SRC up to 5.6MHz DSD.
Obviously the user interface was not designed to be intuitive to the casual home listener, and that would be my biggest complaint. Takes some practice to quickly find the settings for DAC use versus record/playback.
The tiny remote also has extremely limited functionality, though I did finally work it so that I can tweak the volume level from my chair :)
The USB inputs are for keyboard connection and file copy or "playback" only. As mentioned, no recording to USB stick.
You can move files easily between the CF, SD and USB stick so I record to the CF card and then copy to the USB stick to move to the PC.
I would also recommend you take a look at the free TASCAM HI-RES EDITOR link I post. It might solve some of the DSD editing issues I see mentioned.
I guess I don't know that much about my DA-3000. Are you saying that when using it as a DAC you can send it PCM and up-sample to DSD? If that's possible, I'll give it a try.Thanks for the link to the Hi-Rez Editor. I've downloaded it and I'll also give that a try. Perhaps this will motivate me to begin recording vinyl to DSD.
Thanks again,
John Elison
Edits: 09/01/15
Sorry about that.
I think my statement was misleading.
I did try what you mentioned and no you cannot up-sample the SPIDF inputs beyond PCM 192/24. That was disappointing but I'm sure there is a reason why.
I should have said you can up-sample the analog inputs to a 5.6M DSD recording.
But, if there was a source that would spit out SDIF-3 (DSD-Raw) those inputs can be up-sampled I believe.
At least the control panel does not give an error when that is selected.
But that source has been elusive in my searches so far.
I've tried the editor to up-sample .wav files to 5.6M DSD and it works nicely but I have not done a sound quality comparison.
Hopefully some one else has experience with this comparison and whether it makes a noticeable difference.
> I should have said you can up-sample the analog inputs to a 5.6M DSD recording.
That's not called up-sampling and it doesn't require the use of the sample rate converter (SRC). What you are talking about is simply recording in DSD, which is the intended purpose of the DA-3000 DSD recorder. I have recorded two LPs at DSD(5.6-MHz) and I intend to do more recording now that I have the DSD Editor.
Thanks,
John Elison
Ok. Got it. I understand the analog input has no sampling attributable to the playback of tape/vinyl. Would that also hold for say the analog output from a CD/DVD player? Just asking to improve my knowledge.
Still fairly new to the terminology (and technology). :)
Any ideas on the SDIF-3 interface source?
Seems proprietary in nature and either not used any longer, used only on specialized equipment or never was popular enough.
Yes, sampling is not applicable to analog signals -- only digital. The sample rate converter (SRC) allows you to record a digital signal at a different sampling frequency.
The SDIF interface is found primarily on professional digital equipment.
That is not true . You can change the volume on the fly with the DA-3000.
I use mine to record from many Blu Ray Concerts and I transferred my SACD and DVD audio to 24/192 albeit from the analog outputs. But they still sound great!
Sorry! I thought recording level couldn't be changed during recording. Thanks for correcting me. I'll check it out the next time I make a recording. It certainly makes more sense for recording level to be adjustable during recording.
Best regards,
John Elison
I really can't answer your question. I own a TASCAM DA-3000 that I use mostly for playback of DSD files from 64-GB USB flash drives. I love the sound of the DA-3000's DAC.
My DA-3000 is connected to the balanced tape loop of my Pass Labs X1 control preamplifier, which I also love for its balanced tape loop and excellent sound quality. I also have an OPPO BDP-105D, which plays DSD files from USB flash drives, too, but the TASCAM has a noticeably better sounding DAC. I wish I could find a standalone DSD DAC that sounds as good as the TASCAM DA-3000 and sells for a reasonable price.
I bought the TASCAM to record vinyl LPs but I lost interest. I have already copied most of my favorite LPs at 24/96 using an Alesis Masterlink. I thought it would be fun to copy vinyl to DSD but I lost interest after recording two LPs. I think what caused me to lose interest was the difficulty of performing DSP on DSD files. It is basically impossible. You have to convert the DSD to PCM to perform fades at the beginning and end of cuts.
DSD sure sounds good, though. I have a large number of albums in DSD and the best ones sound really nice played back through the TASCAM DA-3000.
Good luck,
John Elison
Because doing proper fades is impossible with DSD (unless converted to PCM - and why do that if you want a "pure" DSD recording?), I would limit the vinyl being transferred to albums that run non-stop on each side. *Perfect* for those 15 different vinyl copies of DSOTM and Tubular Bells that every audiophile is required to purchase!!
-RW-
John,
Thank you for your thorough response. I love most of my SACDs, but know most of them were not native DSD.
I am a huge fan of 2496 and burn most of my files to DVD-rs as DVD-Vs with Cirlinca and can really enjoy those files in my DVD players. I have a hard time at 68 discerning the improvement to 24/192 from 2496, but I have not spent much time comparing the files. I should do more home work as I can manipulate the 24/192 files in Sony SoundForge which is a huge plus.
I have written Tascam about the ability to transfer files from the DA-3000 through USB, but it appears to be unlike the 2 DR-2ds and the DR-07 I own that have USB out.
I can by a USB SDHC card reader and do it that way, but following the lead of the DR-2ds with USB out would have made sense to me.
I have also looked at their PD-2, but it only does up to 24/192 ( (I laugh when I say, only) and it is the same price as the DA-3000 which makes the DA-3000 very attractive. It appears to be more of a field stereo recorder with 2 mic pres, but I'll bet it is very nice.
I have not downloaded any DSD files yet as I cannot play them back now, but as you have done with the DA-3000 I could on a flash drive. My download speed is 20mbps so that would be an over-night thing for me. AT&T does our neighborhood no favors.
I will have to mull this over for a few days, but from your comments it is clear that buying it would remove buyer's remorse...and audiophiles nightmare.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim Tavegia
I have a DA-3000 and a Benchmark ADC1 USB. The quality of the Benchmark ADC is noticeably better and I now use the Benchmark to do the actual A/D conversion and the DA-3000 purely as a digital recorder of the AES/EBU output datastream from the Benchmark. The DA-3000 has slightly more distortion creeping in as the input signal level increases. I also observe a slight "softness" and loss of air with the DA-3000. Having said that, I could live with the DA-3000! It's what you are used to...and having used the Benchmark ADC1 for many years prior to the DA-3000 the differences are more significant to me.
The difference in going from 24/96 to 24/192 is unlikely to be noticed in the audible frequency range - it depends on your microphone bandwidth (or analogue source). The effective dynamic range of both the Benchmark and DA-3000 are about 21 bit which is slightly greater than the maximum dynamic range of the human ear. As for bandwidth, going to 24/192 really only gives you peace of mind (and larger files!). You will potentially have much greater issues in transmission of 192kHz data since it will be more demanding of your cable bandwidth if using an external DAC.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Thanks for the reply as I really appreciate your input. I have long thought about a benchmark dac as well.
The fact that I cannot easily manipulate or share files has kept me away from DSD and the DA-3000, but when it is about the same price as some very good 24/192 recorders it is foolish not to consider it. The Tascam PD-2 which does 24/192 and has two nice built in mic pres might be my ticket.
Bob Katz did write me as he owns a DR-680MK1 which he only uses for film work as he thinks the mic pres are strictly utility, but for what it cost and is, it is very nice with 6 channels and 4 on board mic pres. With a pair of True Solo mic pres it might just be the ticket and also does 2 channels of 24/192 or 6 at 24/96. The MK 2 is now available.
I'm sure that it is not near the quality of the Benchmark or Sound Devices gear, but being a poorer audiophile is a bummer. lol Pretty hard to complain about any of this with the digital quality we now enjoy.
Thanks, again.
Jim
Jim Tavegia
As I mulled this decision over I decided against the DA-3000 as I was not sure I would ever use the DSD part. So I ordered a Tascam DR680mk2 from Sweetwater Sound through Ben Porter my sales contact.
It really came down to the flexibility of being able to record 6 tracks at 24/96 or 2 tracks at 24/192 and the ability to mix down to stereo which I have not been able to do before. I can handle 24/192 in my Sony Sound Forge which was a big deal to me.
I will later pair it with either 2-True Solo's or 2-Focusrite ISA One's that will give me some great mic pres. We will see how the 4 on-board mic pres are, but Bob Katz said they are strictly a utility for him as he uses his for his film work with better mic pres and likes it.
Jim Tavegia
Hi Jim,
I bought two 32-GB SDHC memory cards for recording. My Toshiba notebook computer has a SDHC port so it is very easy for me to transfer recordings to my computer. The TASCAM DA-3000 does not allow recording directly to a USB flash drive, but it allows you to transfer your recordings from its SDHC or CF card to a USB flash drive. Then you can plug the USB flash drive into your computer to transfer the recordings.
I am also a fan of 24/96. I've been copying my favorite vinyl LPs to digital for the past 12-years using my Alesis Masterlink digital recorder, which can record at a maximum resolution of 24/96. I down-sampled most of those recordings to 16/44 Redbook CD-Rs, but during the last three years I've retained the 24/96 files to play in my computer audio streamer. Unfortunately, the TASCAM DA-3000 will not play AIF files directly and all my 24/96 recordings are in the AIFF format. However, I just discovered last night that I can stream them from my computer to an April Music Stello U3 USB link connected to the TASCAM's AES/EBU input and it plays all my 24/96 AIF files perfectly.
The TASCAM DA-3000 can be used as an external DAC by turning on its AD/DA direct mode. It seems to be quite a versatile component and it has one of the best sounding DACs I've ever heard. I'm sure you would be happy with it.
Best regards,
John Elison
Hey John, so glad you found a way to play your aif files! all my best, stephanie
Hi Stephanie,
I prefer the sound of the DA-3000 DAC compared to the Oppo BDP-105D. The Stello U3 link accepts both WAV and AIFF up to 24/192. It also supposedly reclocks the data stream. It's a great device to take when I visit friends so I can bring my music on my laptop and plug directly into their DACs using coax or AES/EBU.
Are you still happy with your Alesis Masterlink for copying vinyl? It's DAC also has the kind of sound quality I prefer. Like the DA-3000, it is more transparent and less colored than the Oppo. The only problem is its 24/96 upper limit.
Best regards,
John Elison
Hey John, yes, still using the Alesis though I am prepared to switch to a different newer adc should it fail. Will probably hold out until that happens.
Cheers, Stephanie
Thanks. A lot more versatile than I thought. I never thought about using it as a DAC and it would have to be an improvement over my older Sony DVP-NS 755 DVD/SACD players, but they were rated just below the 777, so I now have 3 of them. It got excellent review, but that was back in the day.
You have nearly pushed me over the edge. Thanks. Jim
Jim Tavegia
John,
regarding a standalone DSD DAC. Check out the TEAC UD-301 or UD-501. I have the UD-301 and I am very happy with it. And the price is not that high either, IMHO.
Best,
Rudy
---
AvianArt
Hi Rudy,
Thanks for the recommendation. I had considered the UD-501 but some of my other audio buddies thought it might not be that good. It does have the same DAC chips that are in my DA-3000 and the price is certainly reasonable. However, I just noticed Teac now has a UD-503 that is supposed to be even better. Of course, the price is nearly three times higher than the UD-501. Oh, well.
I just figured out how to use my DA-3000 as an external DAC for streaming PCM digital from my computer. Some time ago I bought an April Music Stello U3 USB Link and I just connected it in-between my computer and the AES/EBU input on the TASCAM. I put the TASCAM in its AD/DA direct mode and turned on its monitor function. It is now operating as a DAC for computer audio streaming and it sounds fantastic. Bass is tighter and deeper than the OPPO BDP-105D and it sounds more transparent. It's about the best sounding DAC I've heard other than the April Music Eximus DP1 I used to have on loan.
Best regards,
John Elison
I use it for my own Live DSD Recordings.
I need to learn to use Korg Audiogate. I have it on my computer, but I've been too lazy to learn it. I really liked the Alesis Masterlink because I could do all the mastering and DSP on the recorder itself. The main problem with the Masterlink was getting the recording onto my computer after it was mastered. I had to burn multiple CD-Rs in order to transfer it to my computer. It would have been so much more convenient if the Masterlink had a USB port or had a removable memory card like the TASCAM. The removable memory card in the TASCAM is much more convenient in transferring the finished product to my computer. I just need to get motivated to learn and use Korg Audiogate.
Thanks,
John Elison
/
The TASCAM DA-3000 does not have a recording level knob. The recording level must be set before starting the recording and it cannot be changed during the recording process. Furthermore, it would be very inconvenient to monitor the recording process in real-time while the LP is playing as I would do for a live recording. Instead, I just let the LP play from beginning to end while I do other things. When it's finished I simply crop off any extra time at the beginning and end and perform track splits and fades as part of the mastering process.
Of course, if I were doing live recordings, the TASCAM would be connected to a mixer in which the mixer's output level could be monitored and changed in real-time during the live recording session.
Best regards,
John Elison
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