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In Reply to: RE: Why is HiRes Download more expensive than physical disc ? posted by akltam on May 07, 2015 at 09:51:31
and those seemed to be pressed in the same quantities as classical & jazzWith especially small runs of physical discs, (it costs more to press small quantities), everything points to higher expenses to manufacture physical discs.
Downloading hi-rez files is a very perilous endeavor. I will not even consider it until I am certain that I have an excellent measuring tool to prove that the file is actually what is claimed.
There is way too much evidence from folks who've been ripped off by companies like HDTracks.
What one gets with a download is so much less, and of such lower value, it's crazy that it costs anywhere near the price.
Finally, - when top tier players are involved, SACDs simply sound better.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Edits: 05/08/15Follow Ups:
Maybe it can't, but it does.
I'm loving Downloads, and I also use Audirvana+ and JRiver MC20 for Mac, terrific results.
I got one bad Download from HD Tracs a few years ago, Africa Brass.
I've compared SACD with Download of same title, and DSD128 sounds better than any SACD, on my system/ears.
CDs played as DSD128 Files are also terrific.
Does it allow streaming from services like QOBUZ, SPOTIFY and TIDAL?
Would think it would require an app for that unless it was AirPlay friendly and you could stream from an app on your computer as both TIDAL and QOBUZ require an app to stream 16/44.1, OK you can steam TIDAL from Chrome browser but still.
I also have a Sony 5400 VSE and my downloads played through my PC and DAC sound better than my 5400, I think that the time has arrived to
retire the cd player.
Which specific recordings did you used for comparisons?
And also, do you use any special wiring from the Z1ES?
Everything sounds better via the PC/DAC combination.
A no brainer.
And also, what's the setup configuration for both like, may I ask?
Firstly, I use the RCA Outs on both.
I also have a Stock 5400, and tried the Balanced outs, but they are the same 2V output level as the RCA's, same on HAP Z1.
Balanced is supposed to be twice the Voltage as RCA, and it sounded weak and wimpy, even with Volume increased, compared to RCA.
I don't know why they do it that way.
Some SACD/CD/File comparisons include:
The Door/Keb Mo, The Nightfly/Fagen,
West Side Story/SFS, Somewhere/Jarret,
West Side Story/Oscar Peterson.
24/96/192, SACD better than CD,
PCM Files up-converted to DSD better than CD or PCM File Playback, DSD Files Better yet, and DSD 128 the best I've heard here.
A slight difference between DSD128 created with Audio Gate,
and the Z1 up-converting to DSD 128.
Usually I just let the Z1 to the Math.
I also record my own live DSD 64 Files with Sony D100.
I use Audirvan + and JRiver MC 20 for Mac for Computer Playback
with Mytek 192/DSD Dac, in a separate system.
I use the Upsampling on the Mytek for PCM ( Directv Satellite Box), and play DSD 128 Files on the A+.
Everytime I've compared with the Mytek, I also like DSD 128 best.
I haven't bought any Disc in months, and only occasionally listen to CDs or SACDs anymore.
I do listen to LPs, and will be recording some onto my D100, for DSD File Playback on Sony or Mytek.
Downloads are not all in the $50 range, many are as little as $10.
I've only got one dud, a few years ago, Africa Brass .
I'm very happy with Download Quality and File Playback.
I've read a couple of reviews of DSD 256 Dacs, I would like to go that route sometime.
As far as I know, the long promised firmware to fix that issue hasn't been released yet.
And the other thing is:
2xDSD upsampling cause a drain on the unit's dsp, all of us who had listened to it prefer to have it switched off so that the player sound more energetic and firmer.
Upsampling also introduce harmonic artifacts which muddy transients we feel.
Z
a borrowed Z1, that you used the balanced outs.
Yes?
- A big bulk of our listening involved around comparisons between dsd files of different ways of ripping sacd disc via a PS3 - yes, that's right, different ways of process/preparation while ripping did affect sonic results very audibly.
So, my advise is - stick to dsd downloads to feed your Z1ES.
A few things we found out:- Playing the same dsd file track loaded on the Z1ES twice in a row will audibly degrade sound quality. Where the first time play was smooth and musical, if you skip back to start playing the same track from the beginning again, it will acquire a nervy fatiguing artifact. To get around this problem, you just need to select a different track to play first (any duration of play will do), then go back and re select that desired track again. This will avoid the sound degradation I mentioned. The jog dial and menu screen helps facilitate this. Shutting down and restart the unit prior to playing each track sounds best, of course.
- Switching off dsd up sampling function (and PCM to dsd) improves sound quality for the player while playing dsd files.
- If you are going to use balanced connections, make sure the XLR terminals to be connected at the player, the hot and cold pins are swapped. This is the best way to ensure correct absolute polarity downstream while avoiding the pitfalls of cabling and component signal flow directionality getting reversed.
Reverting to single ended RCA connection won't get you correct absolute polarity because the problem occurs in the digital domain within the player.
Without correcting for the Z1ES's inversion of absolute polarity, the sound was pleasant enough, polite, almost too polite, and uninvolving....
Edits: 05/13/15
Well sure enough Jerome, the Z1 does seem to invert the polarity. For the benefit of the reader is a link below.
Having used DSP for crossovers I understand what you say about overtaxing the unit. Usually by heavy stuff like changing the gain. I notice that the remote tablet program for the Z1 has volume controls, but they are disabled. Trying to adjust volume in the digital realm is just the kind of thing that would overburden the DSP. It's one thing I don't get about the Z1. It's like they designed it to be the only source and preamp, but then didn't put a volume knob on it. That's a head scratcher.
Thanks for sharing your findings. The Z1 is new to me, so I haven't tried all the settings, and their permutations, but there is one thing I think I can say unequivocally. Converting and upsampling 44/16 to 2x DSD is the best thing to happen to RBCD since the jewel case. It may be it's best future.
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Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
Make sure you invert absolute polarity only at the power amp's output speaker terminals!
Polarity comment got me thinking, and I've reversed both speaker connections,
and so far I'm loving it!
More testing tomorrow when I'll have more time.
Travel Guide/Ralph Towner and Somewhere/Keith Jarret are sounding 3 dimensional
and generally awesome.
I haven't switched things back yet, but so far, I'm happy!
I don't recall my system sounding this good!
Mark 6,
I got to tell you what I heard tonight, and it's not from the direction I thought.
Yes I reversed the speaker wires. Yes maybe a subtle improvement. I posted a link on previous post, and since the Z1 does invert the polarity, then yes I will compensate for that.
What was most interesting to me tonight was this. I have this 192/24 download of Yes, Close to the Edge from Rhino. I listened to it, and thought they had tilted up the tone/pitch to accentuate the highs. I thought I had wasted my $25 just like Sordidman and others are talking about. After reading Jerome's comments I decided to turn off all the filters as a starting point. No DSEE, conversion to DSD, oversampling. I guess that means I was just running PCM through a one bit Sabre chip? Anyway, the album went from sounding wrong to sounding spot on. More than pleasantly surprised. I had a smile on my face when the pipe organ kicked in. :)
This wasn't the result I expected. All this after that post about 44/16 to DSD. I still agree with that.
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Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
/
And better forget about making comparisons from now on with the Z1ES against the XA5400ES if you are not going to make an effort to ensure both their outputs' absolute polarity are the same.
Okay, so just reverse the wires on your speaker input. Problem solved.
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Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
for the Z1, I've switched the red/black on both speakers,
doesn't that invert polarity?
Or is there more to it?
Jinx one two three.
From what I understand you can't hear reversed absolute polarity.
--------------------------------------
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
I switched the speaker leads, and damn if "Travelogue", with Ralph Towner, doesn't
sound amazingly 3 dimensional and fantastic, not even one of my fav recordings for
sound quality before, pretty laid back, even foggy previously.
I still use Remastering Engine, Precision Upsampling and DSEE for PCM Files ( this one is 24/88 ).
I can't really spend anymore time with it today, but tomorrow will test it as rigorously as I can.
A bit of fun.
Will report.
Duly Noted.
FWIW, when I use my preamp that reverses polarity, I reverse the input leads to my speakers. I did not know the Z1 reverses absolute polarity.
Let us know about your observations when you get a chance.
I should not be doing this at work, cause I just got busted by the boss.
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Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
Jerome has some off the beaten track ideas, but this is worth a try,
maybe it won't pan out, maybe it will,
but it's easy to try or put back.
First Impressions aren't always right,
I haven't changed it back yet,
but will listen more tomorrow.
I didn't know about the reversal on the Z1 either,
I don't know how Jerome finds this stuff out!
Agreed.
Regards,
Geoff
Thanks for the write up. I keep being struck by the resolution coming out of my speakers when I play Beck's Sea Change in DSD. I've never heard an album sound like that. Only it's crippled by dynamic compression. You can't turn it up.
RBCDs will be around for a long time, but man are they beat.
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Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
Internet radio on the Z1 is plenty good enough for me, no FM distortion, the Linn Station sound great, among others.
/
physical media should be worth more ... such a shame (or sham to some) the current state of downloads, esp considering the latest head scratching justifications for increased pricing ...
Why this industry continues to shoot itself in the foot is beyond me.
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