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Music Direct is advertising CTA as shipping. Would appreciate any feedback on the SQ. I don't buy many new SACD releases but this one intrigues me.
Follow Ups:
I have not read a negative review on this newest SACD.
Can you point us to a online review or two? Thanks.
Still have not read a bad review of this SACD.
Sure- check out steve Hoffman forums. Even though he is a bit of a communist, there exists some pretty good music information.
Some early reports are coming in on this SACD- the customers that bought it are liking the MoFi treatment.
Still listed as pre-order at A S, although there is a user review dated 1/30/15, so who knows? Fine print at M D reads "Specified ship dates are estimates."
Who knows?
Peace,
Tom E
I have the Hi Rez download, the Rhino release sounds much more open and dyanmic.
There can only be (limited) resources, original master tapes or not, for these things. Still, I want to know how the new MoFi shakes out?
I have it and it sounds terrific! What makes this other one different/better or are we talking the same release? The one I have has both stereo and 4.0 layers. The "new" one is being advertised as a MOFI release.I saw Chicago back in their heyday, maybe 1973, and they were excellent in concert!
-RW-
Edits: 02/03/15
I thought that was a 4.0 DTS release.
Regards,
Geoff
I just burned a copy from the ISO file I have and my Oppo 93 is indicating that it's 5.1. But everything I've read says it has a DTS 4.0 layer and a 2.0 layer. I'll have to move the Oppo back to the big system to confirm one way or the other. Stay tuned...
PS: Nothing wrong with DTS if it's done properly. Just Listen to Junior Wells' "Come On In This House" and you'll hear what I mean!
-RW-
The Oppo lights up the SACD, MCh, and PCM lights. The outboard attached video display indicates SACD and PCM. And my ears tell me it's 4.x - not sure if 4.0 or 4.1 because my subwoofer feed goes into another amp that powers the 2nd voice coils of the Gallo Ref. 3.1s. So I have no visual indication if the subwoofer channel is active.
But nowhere do I see DTS being indicated. It is a very discrete mix, this is definitely not a synthesized matrix deal. But I've heard some very good DTS releases that sound as good as anything else in my rather substantial multichannel library.
However, Foobar playing back the ISO indicates that it is DTS, and I tend to believe Foobar on this one. So, it is most likely the DTS 2.0/4.0 that Rhino released.
My question is, did MOFI go back and remaster for 5.1 or is their multichannel release also 4.0???
-RW-
SACD will not light up the DTS as it doesn't support that codec.
Mark S Robinson
Yes, this is true.
Rhino Handmade DTS, not DVD-A (despite what the header says - see the scans of the package). Liner notes indicate that it was mastered from the original 4.0 Quadradisc mixes made back in the day. No 2.0 mix included. Wonder why the Oppo would light up the SACD indicator.Discogs has no entry for a Rhino SACD. The label's earlier MCh stuff was DVD-A - I have the Chicago II and Chicago V releases - both are quite good.
The CTA looks to be like those that came out under the DTS label a number of years back, just before and right after the introduction of DVD-A. They released a lot of old Columbia SQ Quadradiscs, some good, some not so good, as DTS-encoded discs. I have the Santana Abraxas one, which I remember from my teen years. A friend of mine had a quad rig and the SQ LP. It was a ridiculous mix - Carlos' guitar was buried way deep, and the congas sound like the player was running from speaker to speaker. Imagine my surprise 25 years later when I get the DTS edition and hear the same thing.
Edits: 02/04/15
All of my research indicates it is a DTS 24/96 Quad version (4.0) with no 2.0
*However*, the DTS light does not come on on the Oppo and the SACD lamp does. This could be due to someone ripping the original disc and fiddling about with it. I do not know the provenance, it was a download.
I can tell you that it doesn't sound too good to these ears. The drums are buried in the mix, cymbals have no zip at all - very washed out, and there is no bass to speak of. Definitely not one of the better DTS releases I've heard.
It should be *easy* for MoFi to surpass this effort IF they provide a multichannel version - but I see no mention of one. And I also see that the MoFi SACD is only $29.99 whereas the MoFi LP is "on sale" for $149.99 - WHOA!! The MSRP is $199.99. Are they out of their friggin' minds?
-RW-
The MoFi LP was put out years ago, in the early- to mid-80s. Any copies you see out there are secondary sales. The only current release is the SACD.
It doesn't appear that MoFi is doing MCh SACDs. Apart from a couple early on (I have the Cowboy Junkies "Whites Off Earth Now;" they also did a few Vox classical 4.0 from the original surround mixes), they seem to be concentrating on hi-res stereo (and occasional mono) "from the original master tapes," as the marketing hype goes.
I winder how much my un-opened vinyl copy of DSOTM is worth???? Maybe I could trade it for a decent car? [g]
-RW-
No. No car. Maybe resole your shoes. ;-pPopsike tracks online auction sales of records - what was asked, how many bids were received, and what it sold for (or didn't sell for). You should register to make queries. Used to be free, though now they put a cap on the number of searches you can do per day unless you pay a membership fee. Worth it if you regularly buy and sell; no need to if you're only curious occasionally about what something's worth.
Edits: 02/06/15 02/06/15
Yes, Rhino made a such a disc a few years ago.
I am not particularly interested in a DTS version. The MoFi should be a straight-up setero disc. There are some very early reorts coming in on various other forums.
MoFi's is probably stereo. Most of their releases these days are, and they generally label their few MCh discs as such in the ad copy.
FWIW, I have the Rhino vinyl from a few years ago. Stellar - can't see how the SACD could better it. They hit it out of the park.
I had no idea there already was a Rhino SACD. MD is advertising a MoFi release.
The MOFi one is stereo. Good but the Rhino one is better it has MCH. There is also a DTS one out there as 4.1 to emulate the QUAD version and it's great as well.
Markus
Mark S Robinson
Thanks! for sharing -Mark.
Yes- Rhino released an SACD previously. MoFi has the newest SACD release.
I am awaiting the reception of this title on SACD as well.
This is easily a Top 10 of greatest Rock album(s) debut.
I'll buy it if the reviews are good. I've heard too many $50 SACDs that sound like garbage for me to buy it without someone else saying it's good.
Can you please tell us exactly how many $50 garbage SACD's you've heard, and what they are? These kind of baseless generalizations do no one any good.
I'm not saying there aren't any, but I'd really like to know which ones you've heard. That are garbage. That cost $50. Would be nice of you to share information instead of waiting for others to give you information.
Peace,
Tom E
I've purchased $50+ OOP SACDs (that's Out Of Print, so now you don't have to bother yourself researching what that means) that have sounded terrible compared to other SACDs. It's not a "baseless generalization" either...there's plenty of reviews on SACD.net that give low marks for sound quality for many titles.
BTW, you know what's really garbage? Your signature of "Peace, Tom E." after a sarcastic post. Here's my sign-off to you: "GFY, Rich A."
No, you don't owe me or anyone else anything. Just thought that you might be willing to share your experience, as I have many times, with others in the community. See, that's how most reviews happen on sites like this and SA-CD.net. Some people post their thoughts instead of hollow statements like yours. Guess you're only interested in sucking up information from those who are willing to give as well as take.
Typical these days.
I don't believe you've ever bought a $50 SACD, OOP or any other type, in your life. I think you're a liar as well as a vulgar leech.
Peace,
Tom E
You could've wrote "I'd be interested in hearing about which SACDs fell short of expectations " or something similar, but instead you publicly took an antagonistic tone and questioned the validity of my statements. I would've gladly discussed my thoughts on which recordings I was disappointed in, but not with your attitude. Vulgar? No...but when poked with a stick I'll strike back twice as hard.
I didn't mean to be a dick in my first post. No more stick poking. We all would like to know some of the expensive stinkers you've heard. SACD's are expensive enough, and buying a golden turd is a real setback to my entertainment budget.
I have one SHM SACD and it is excellent: Tommy. But then the initial domestic release wasn't very good, so not tough to beat that.
I have one other expensive Japanese EMI SACD: Brahms' German Requiem. It is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard, so much better than redbook.
It's true there are plenty of rare SACD's that might fetch $50 and not be worth it, but I haven't got any in my collection of 250+. I have bought and sold a lot (more than 50) of SACD's I didn't like, but it usually wasn't due to the sound.
Now, Peace?
Tom E
I have 40 something discs. Most are at least good, a few have been downright bad, and a few are just stunning. I'll mention the stand-outs good or bad:
Deep Purple's 'Machine Head'- This is what SACD means..clarity, dynamics, and subtle multi-channel effects that enhance just enough.
'Kind of Blue'- This disc alone started a friend to get serious about listening to music. He's a big fan of Miles Davis and was very familiar with most of his recordings, but watching him hear this for the first time was very enjoyable to me.
'Dark Side of the Moon'- Probably the best example of what multi-channel SACD can be. It's the perfect material for this and it was executed flawlessly
Aerosmith's 'Toys in the Attic'- This is multi-channel done poorly. Way too aggressive mix made it a distraction rather than an enhancement. The guitar tone was great but too forward.
Alice in Chains 'Greatest Hits'- This is so bad I had to check my connections and equipment. I seriously thought something was wrong or at least out of phase. It's actually unlistenable.
The Doors 'L.A. Woman'- Not terrible, but the only thing it did better than CD was clarity. Tone was noticeably higher with an emphasis on the upper frequencies. I prefer the CD.
Elton John 'Tumbleweed Connection'- Again nothing wrong, but it comes off flat and not a significant improvement over the CD.
Elton John 'Madman Across The Water' A fantastic sound with great subtly in the rear channels. This makes 'Tumbleweed Connection' even more disappointing.
I can't speak about the plethora of classical/orchestral discs available because I only own a couple. It's not that I don't like or appreciate that type of music, it's that I don't know where to start and I'm not willing to spend $30-$50 on something that I might not care for or even worse have substandard sonics.
... is with Kind of Blue. I have this one in many forms -- multiple CDs, multiple LPs, open reel tape, cassette, SACD -- and the SACD barely beats out the cassette. Each time I get a new SACD player (currently Oppo 105 with ModWright mods) I drag out the KOB SACD only to hear the same blahs, relative to the others. Which particular SACD has the magic? Mine is the first stereo/multichannel one from Columbia Legacy.
Dave-
add;
Jamie Cullum- Twentysomething SACD (2004) Verve;
this is my reference disc.
I'm not an aficionado of Miles, but I did have the CD and the LP before buying the SACD. The tape hiss is still there but what really did it for me is the SACD is at the correct speed. It's a bit slower than every recording I've previously heard and the story in the liner notes about using the correct master tape explains why. I can live with tape hiss if the alternative is to filter out the smallest details.
I concur-
"Kind of Blue"
"DSOM"
"Machine Head"
are must-buy discs!
Most of the Black Sabbath recordings have been released on SACD as well as the Dio-era Rainbow. Blue Oyster Cult's 'Agents of Fortune' is also available but all of those are commanding $70 and up. I can't justify buying them when I already have the LP and the CD. The latter gets played through a Sony HAP-Z1ES that does a fantastic job of creating near hi-rez files from 16/44.1 CD level music.
I tend to agree that all SACD(s) will not sound perfect. Specific labels do a better job than others when it comes down to these things.
Given both have horn arrangements I'm hoping it sounds as good as the BS&T SACD's I have. Wife was a big fan here in Chicago before they went national. Saw them tens of times ( or so she says) and it would be a treat for her to hear them "up front" again. Also, I do admit to skipping a few tracks on the BS&T SACD's due to not loving some of their jazz improvisations. Likely a similar situation on a few of the CTA cuts.
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