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In Reply to: RE: System idiosyncracies in stereo playback... posted by Jim Pearce on December 09, 2014 at 09:41:37
Interesting Jim,
my reference disc is;
Jamie Cullum - twentysomething- CD/SACD (Verve) 2004.
If you get any chance, pick it up and tell me your impressions!
Follow Ups:
I hear Jamie Cullum a lot on JazzFM - including his BBC radio show. The album is pleasant enough, but I won't be spending $50 on it. What I was really wondering here was if anyone is happy with a DSD to PCM conversion and DSP bass management? I always thought of my analog solution - which rests more than anything on using five full range speakers in a quasi-ITU configuration - as a kludge and a temporary solution at best. I've read many praises of Audyssey from Kal R. and others, but I'm skeptical given the reports I'm reading here - especially for stereo SACD. I'm sure this stuff is great for movies...
I am very happy with DSD to PCM conversion from my Sony STR-DA5400ES/XA5400ES combo especially for mch SACD. have heard nothing better, As for Patricia Barber Cafe Blue UGH.
.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Laughing...
I was quite happy with an Integra prepro, Audyssey XT/32 and Audyssey Pro for a number of years. Several months ago, that all changed. I am now using PC/JRiver/DiracLive/ExaSound e28 DAC with a very large library of Mch classical ripped SACDs, BDs and downloads.
I respect Audyssey, and I found it to make a profound positive difference in my sound. For me, it was no contest vs. Pure DSD in my room and system, which requires speaker distance correction, bass management to a sub and EQ to sound best with Mch. Pure DSD was just all wrong for me in Mch. Even in stereo, I preferred the PCM/DSP route for best sound.
But, Audyssey is not the last word in room correction, although its power to improve a system is quite obvious in most cases. For those who have the luxury of PC rather than player playback, Dirac Live is noticeably better. A friend now uses Dirac Live with his Marantz 8801,and he finds it a distinct improvement over his previous Audyssey XT/32 with a Pro calibration. He was sold on this after hearing Dirac into my prepro. My ExaSound DAC kicks the sound up quite a few levels from there. But, use of a conventional player with this setup is not possible.
You could always sit in your BMW if you wanted to use Dirac Live with a CD player.
I prefer it in my Rolls Royce, thank you.
Actually, in the home, it is quite outstandingly good plus easy and quick to use. Also, unlike most Audyssey implementations, which are limited to 48k, it handles hi rez Mch up to 192k. But, as I said, it runs in the PC and handles only audio played on the PC.
I hear ya Jim.
The reason that JC is my reference, is this, the album was recorded entirely in the analog domain. Even on red-book CD, it is still a reference.
Recalling the DSP situation, I bet it does add/take away from different recordings. I would also think that no (2) SACDs are mastered the same.
Many different factors in this equation...
Earlier this year, when I told you about auditioning the DV-50, it was in a 2 channel set-up w/ Pass Labs gear. I do not think any kind of DSP was engaged?
They seem to be the only manufacturer who focuses on how DSPs affect stereo digital playback. Unfortunately they've abandoned Hi Rez - and DSD was never to their liking anyway.
They are coming back into hi-rez. :-)
I'll wear my 3D glasses while listening to it!
Since it's Meridian I know the sound will be superb. And I'm not unmindful of the fact that the inconsistency in stereo playback I'm talking about here is largely caused by inconsistencies in the audio chain, from mastering on. Meanwhile, it gives me another reason not to buy anything new at this time.
Jim-
I feel Meridian missed its opportunity way back when- it should have been in a partnership w/ both Sony & Phillips at the dawn of the SACD.
If I recall, I believe the company did partake in DVD-Audio ?
I must admit that I didn't get a chance to listen to MQA, due to a severe disease, but I read the press coverage and I learned that Meridian held a press conference at their UK offices and invited some professional singers and players to perform live in front of the audience, and then played back their recordings through a pair of very expensive active speakers equipped with MQA technology. Reportedly, the audience burst into tears as there was no difference between the live performances and the playback. And lest you think it's a technology for the affluent people only, the $299 Explorer 2 USB DAC not only decodes MQA, but also plays back RBCD tracks (.Flac, .Alac, .WAV) with an amazing quality, due to the patented Apodising Filter, which is a trickle-down technology from the company's expensive CD players. It even improves the quality of MP3 files, which used to be a no-no for hard-core audiophiles. With all due respect, Why buy a $60K Boulder DAC? Why buy a $100K TT with a $10K cartridge?
I have been criticized before about Meridian's Explorer 2 MQA-capable DAC, which costs $299 in the US, that "at this price it can't contain audiophile-grade components". Well, there are some good news regarding MQA DAC's (and indeed, DAC's in general). Take a look at the feature set of this upcoming DAC from Mytek: It just might be the best ever DAC in terms of price/performance ratio.
I see the history differently: once again Sony pushed the wrong technology, and then orphaned it. Having said that I have no strong preference between SACD and DVD-A in terms of sound quality. Predictably this new Meridian program is PCM based.
Thanks! Jim,
I enjoy both SACD & DVD-A. Meridian could have also R&D the 1st true "universal" spinner, to include, blu-ray, IME.
Agreed-
Meridian is highly regarded in DSP playback- keep me posted.
Since I can implement analog bass management with the Outlaw Audio on DSD output I'm thinking hard about an Oppo 105D with no processor. I always wanted to use the balanced connection to the front two channels of the DV-50 for both stereo and 5.1, and have 2.1 available - but with no volume control I couldn't do it. But that leaves me with two other problems:1. Figuring out how to play JazzFM (over the internet) on the Oppo. This is my wife's default listening.
2. I would need to swap out the Pioneer Pro 1000-HD with the Samsung PN51F5500AF. The only big deal with this is that I can't get a floor stand for the old TV and don't really want another wall mount in the house. And I can't bring myself to throw out an excellent TV. I've even tried giving it away to friends and relatives. Maybe a universal pedestal mount would work.Chances are I'll just get the DV-50 fixed as this whole thing is a headache.
Edits: 12/14/14
Many Thanks! for the update Jim.
earlier this year, I did spend time w/ the Oppo 105D. It was in an Aesthetix / Vandersteen system. The Oppo was connected to a Benchmark DAC and iMac laptop. The demo included both streaming and iTunes capabilities.
On the other system, different room, I spent time w/ Esoteric, Pass Labs and TAD. The Esoteric was connected to the Pass pre-amp via balanced XLR Audioquest cables. Yes this was a 2 -channel system.
If you would like to know more about my auditions, I will try to help as much as possible.
I am curious about what you didn't like about the DV-50 playing CD in the stereo setup. In my system I definitely preferred it to my Marantz SA14, liked it just as well as my brother's Arcam FMJ CD23 but preferred the Meridian 808 we had on trial for a short period. I don't play a lot of CDs, but one of the things I do - referring back to the OP - is use Cardas Neutral Reference for the whole chain for the stereo XLR output but use Golden Reference for the front L,R in the 5.1 output. This allows me to warm up the sound and move the soundstage back if I don't like the sound through the XLRs.
Sure Jim,
this has happened on 2 separate auditions, so I know that it is the player not jiving w/ my ears. The CD characteristics of the player are lean, dry, narrow or closed-in soundstage- compared to the SACD capability. The other system in question was Boulder / JM labs/Focal.
Although I find it very much depends on the mastering of the CD and the Golden Reference interconnects definitely help to mask these deficiencies where they are present. By the way, I use the maximum upsampling on the player.
It was perplexing Jim-
how can a player sound so superb on SACD and crap out on CD?
This was the DV/SA models. Perhaps, because there are so many Esoteric models, one of the more expensive player(s) corrects CD playback.
I found that the upsampling filters did not matter.
The sound quality from my Ayre C-5xeMP and Sony XA5400ES playing SACDs is close, but not with CDs. The Ayre sounds surprisingly better than the Sony. I've been amazed how good CDs can sound with the Ayre.
db
I use my Ayre CX-7eMP for all CD playback. SACDs are all run through my Marantz SA11S3. Some of my friends think it's nuts to run two players in one system, but it works well for me.
That is saying alot- sleeper!
I agree db-
a very fine CD spinner indeed!
I was just listening to Highway 61 Revisited and right now my wife is listening to Getz/Gilberto in (SACD) 2.1 (5.1 single-ended setup). To a certain extent I hear the same characteristics in SACD and CD - and need the expansive and smoothing effect of the Golden Reference cable - although of course the SACDs tend to be better mastered. The SA models are a different kettle of fish as they convert to PCM.
That's fine Jim.
Still, this is the best SACD spinner I have auditioned to date!
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