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In Reply to: RE: Dumb snide remark. posted by Kal Rubinson on July 08, 2014 at 05:21:28
But true IMO
Follow Ups:
Yawn. Over on this side of the Atlantic, Sony receivers are not doing so hot in terms of either comparative reviews, recommendations or sales. There is no dealer for miles and miles in my large metropolitan area, not even low end, "big box" stores. That, and HATS is dead in terms of currently available product from Sony. Apparently, it was not good enough to generate some marketing excitement to lift them out of the doldrums while the (undeniably very good) 5400 player was still available. But, except for your opinion, that player could not continue to hold its own at the price in terms of features or performance against Oppo, Denon, Marantz, Cambridge, etc. So, bye, bye.
Besides, Stereophile readers are not dying for a receiver review, and Stereophile does not review them. We have more and better options in Mch separates and prepros over here. The one exception was a Sherwood Newcastle AVR Kal reviewed only because it had Trinnov EQ.
You might be the very last Sony fan boy on Earth who still thinks, somehow, Sony AVRs are something really special, the top of the heap, the creme de la creme in Mch sound. The evidence from the marketplace says they are not. And, they are not about to make a comeback. So, enjoy it while you can. The rest of us are not missing anything.
And, by the way, there is an exciting new kid in the block for audio rate control, now that HATS is dead. It is asynchronous USB. It is an open, non-proprietary industry standard that, unlike HATS, does not require a specific model Sony at both ends. Its inherent jitter is zero. It is not yet in prepros or AVRs, but stay tuned. It is in some advanced USB DACS and the Oppo 105D player that can do a very fine job of stereo or Mch reproduction from downloads and rips from a PC. All the more reason that HATS is dead and wishful discussion about it obsolete and pointless.
> > And, by the way, there is an exciting new kid in the block for audio rate control, now that HATS is dead. It is asynchronous USB. It is an open, non-proprietary industry standard that, unlike HATS, does not require a specific model Sony at both ends. Its inherent jitter is zero. It is not yet in prepros or AVRs, but stay tuned. < <
Apparently, the Emotiva XMC-1 prepro ($1999) has an asynchronous sample rate converter that exhibits extremely low jitter. Is this similar to what you mention?
-RW-
I do not know if it is the same thing or not. If it is on the USB input, then it might be. Then, my next question would be is it stereo only or does it handle Mch as well? Most AVRs and prepros I know of only accept stereo via USB.
On paper, the Emotiva might be a nice product and very competitive potentially with much more expensive prepros. It will use a "detuned" version of Dirac Live limited to 48k, I understand. Still, this product has yet to be delivered, which is something of an embarrassment.
So, there always seem to be some missing capabilities in prepros, except perhaps for the Datasat at nearly $20k. I am drifting toward eliminating a prepro from my system entirely in favor of PC hard drive playback in JRiver with full Dirac Live to an ExaSound E28 Mch DAC via asynchronous USB. JRiver has all the control facilities of a prepro, but the PC lacks input flexibility - no HDMI/HDCP inputs. Kal has reviewed this approach and likes it a lot. I plan to try it in my system in the coming months.
A relative of mine is considering the DataSat and, yes, there seem to be "missing capabilities," even there.
Edits: 07/22/14
Yes, Kal, it appears the Datasat lacks any USB inputs. But, it does provide 16 channel AES/EBU on DB-25 connectors. I suppose if you can afford the Datasat, you can afford the necessary Pro AES/EBU output cards on your PC for low jitter signal transfer to the Datasat.
We agree. Mch prepros, even if advanced for their time, usually have a fixed set of capabilities. As technology evolves, they are limited in their adaptability and they become obsolescent no matter how chock full of features they seem to be at the outset. A PC-based solution, while lacking input flexibility, would seem a more adaptable platform, usually just through new software. And, for very high level sound quality, the PC approach might be much less costly both up front and in the long run. It takes more work, but that is seemingly becoming easier all the time. Still, it is not as easy to set up, so it is not for everyone.
What is needed to complete the system is a 4xS/PDIF input on the PC and an external device with 4xS/PDIF outputs and a selection of analog and digital inputs. Or all of that on one PCIe board!!P.S.: The DataSat also lacks analog pass-through.
Edits: 07/23/14
Kal - much of that is possible now via Pro-grade Mch PC spdif input cards and external a-d converters from Lynx Studio. Like d-a, a-d, if you need it -I don't- is probably best done outside the PC. The Audiopraise Vanity board mod can also convert an Oppo player to 4x spdif, 8 channel output. So, you could with either the Datasat or an HTPC have HDMI-less Mch audio input. DSD or analog would all be converted to PCM, of course.
Interestingly, the Datasat looks more and more just like a specialized HTPC with fairly similar overall capabilities, except the Datasat has more inputs built in, if not more input format capabilities. External switch boxes would seem to be able to address that for the PC. And, the PC has Ethernet/DLNA and USB inputs, which I believe the Datasat lacks. But, after some integration work, the HTPC costs a fraction of the prepro. The Datasat, like the older Meridian architecture, has unintentionally thrown down the gauntlet for HTPC afficianados to aspire to, and I believe the HTPC may come very close. There is much potential upside in the PC, I believe, with possibly top notch sonics via external DACS, like the ExaSound E28 using asynchronous USB.
The price mounts for all this added input capability in an HTPC, and I am not keen on going into added input capabilities myself. I do not think I need to. I can live with the input limitations on the PC.
Sure. Going the PC or HTPC route with an external DAC opens up all possibilities. Going the prepro route, even with the DataSat makes some things more difficult (and some impossible) but provides for a friendlier user interface.
We are now considering the DataSat for the HT and a separate PC-based system for the listening/family room. The acoustics are friendlier in the latter room, too.
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