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| Model: | HAP-S1 |
| Category: | Other |
| Suggested Retail Price: | $999.00 |
| Description: | High Resolution Music Player with Integrated Amp |
| Manufacturer URL: | Sony |
| Model Picture: | View |
| Review by AbeCollins on June 15, 2014 at 23:29:47 IP Address: 73.34.22.109 | Add Your Review for the HAP-S1 |
Yes, the Sony HAP-S1 is a well built, sharp looking, and wonderful sounding player for hi-resolution AIFF, ALAC, FLAC, and DSF files (and other file types) but after a week of annoyances (hassles) I decided to return the Sony HAP-S1 for a full refund. It belongs in beta test but not on my dime, or more accurately my thousand bucks!
If it were free, I might be willing to play the beta test program game. You know the drill. File bug reports, work with tech support, try software updates, firmware fixes, and then repeat until most of the bugs are worked out prior to product launch. As a reward for your hassles, you get to keep the beta unit free of charge. Nope. Here you get to pay full price and hope Sony gets around to polishing the product and making it ready for prime time.
Honest, I was hoping that this all-in-one player / integrated amp would work out for my office but it has too many limitations especially around managing content, and some annoying bugs.
ILL CONCEIVED: I was prepared for this part when I purchased the Sony. As I mentioned above, I really did want this to work out. I say ill conceived because:
- You do not eliminate the computer at all when you buy the Sony. You NEED the computer with your music on it in order to (slowly) bulk transfer it all to the Sony and for any subsequent music you might like to add. Well, if you already have a computer with your music on it, chances are you also have it set up as a music server with a decent outboard DAC as I do. In this respect, the Sony HAP-S1 is 'redundant'. Why buy the Sony if you already have a computer with your music on it? The main attraction for me was to get the Mac Mini music server, LCD monitor, keyboard, DAC, and integrated amp out of my office to save space and use the compact all-in-one Sony HAP-S1. Other than a scenario similar to mine, I don't see the benefit of using the HAP-S1 over a computer music server setup.
- There are several drawbacks to using the Sony. If you have a large music library (including large uncompressed files) it can take literally a dozen hours or more to make the initial bulk transfer to the Sony even over hardwired Ethernet. And when you think it's done, it's not. It appears to then grab metadata like track names and album art over the internet (Gracenote) and write to it's text file database. My music library isn't huge, about 6000 tunes mostly in ALAC, AIFF, FLAC, and DSD and it took over 12 hours via CAT5 Ethernet, 1Gb/s link speed on the Mac en0 port but who knows what LAN link speed the Sony auto-negotiated... probably 100BaseT based on the approximately 78Mb/s transfer speeds I saw.
No, you cannot simply attach a USB drive to it with all your music already on it. You have to painfully perform the transfers from your computer over the network. So much for eliminating the computer. I was willing to deal with this. It's a one time bulk transfer after all.
BUGGY:
- While playing a tune on the Sony, I tried deleting a couple unrelated duplicate files (not a duplicate of the tune that was playing). I used the Sony HDD Audio app on my iPad. As it tried to delete the file, the music went mute while it spun it's wheels for about 10 seconds only to report that it was unable to delete the duplicate. Huh? Can't play music while trying to do something as simple as delete a dupe? And then report that it couldn't perform the requested task at all?
- Botched album art being crossed up with wrong artists. So I'm looking through my album art on the Sony HDD Audio app on the iPad and for the most part it looks pretty good, not perfect but I can live with a few mismatches then fix them later, right?
I'm playing a Lenny Kravitz tune and Bob Seger's album art pops up! And then somehow album art for a Tom Petty album is associated with about 5 dozen unrelated artists from various genres! So I'm looking at Tom Petty while listening to Crosby, Stills, & Nash (CSN). This goes on for several tunes with incorrect album art. WT?
So I figure I might like to fix those. But how? The thing can't even delete duplicates, so how am I going to fix album art? On the computer? The album art is perfectly fine on the computer, and if it's not, I just grab the right image and associate it with the album.... on the computer.
You'll love it when you have a two-disc set on the Sony and it shows different album art for each disc! The first disc for Pink Floyd The Wall is correct, the second one is some random image it pulled out of it's ass, or Gracenote's ass?
I gave the Sony two stars on my Amazon review because it's nicely built, sounds surprisingly good, and probably OK with a small to modest music collection. It's ok IF you can live with it's shortcomings. For a thousand bucks? I expect better.
Back to the Mac Mini, with Audirvana Plus, Pure Music, or JRiver, driving my outboard DSD DAC, and Rogue Cronus Magnum integrated amp.
The Sony goes back to Amazon (free pickup by UPS), and I get my thousand bucks back.
P.S. I bet the high-end Sony HAP-Z1ES version which is well reviewed and highly rated by the usual mainstream rags has similar bugs and limitations. But those reviews are mostly focused on audio quality and not so much on implementation, functionality, and useability.
| Product Weakness: | Not ready for Prime Time, buggy, and generally a real hassle to manage. Botched up album art not matching artists. For the money, I'll take a cheap PC or Mac Mini instead and a good DAC. |
| Product Strengths: | Excellent build quality. Looks sharp. 30wpc integrated amp actually sounds very nice and more powerful than I expected. Handles high resolution PCM and DSD playback. |
| Amplifier: | 35 wpc |
| Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): | none |
| Sources (CDP/Turntable): | 96/24 192/24 AIFF, ALAC, and 2.8MHz DSF |
| Speakers: | Tannoy Definition D500 91dB 6 Ohm nom. |
| Cables/Interconnects: | Analysis Plus Oval 9 & Mogami Interconnects |
| Music Used (Genre/Selections): | Various CD rips plus hi-res PCM & DSD |
| Room Size (LxWxH): | 11 x 12 x 10 |
| Room Comments/Treatments: | x |
| Time Period/Length of Audition: | One Week |
| Other (Power Conditioner etc.): | . |
| Type of Audition/Review: | Product Owner |
I've spent a few hours with the Z1 and was saving up for a purchase based strictly on how it sounds....but that was only with what was already loaded at the dealer. I had the same goal: eliminating my Mac mini and all the peripherals from my listening room. I want a simple, digital-based, hi-rez source with the convienence of all my music on a central unit. I was sure this was the answer but reading your review and the usability problems has me thinking twice.
If I'm honest with myself the same peeves that you have will bother me also....but there's no denying the sound quality that this puts out. Coupled with a very good integrated and speakers it's all I want in this room. Bummer it seems to have some bugs.
If your dealer has a good return policy you might go ahead and give it a try. Maybe I'm just too picky.
I bought Sony from Amazon and they let me return it with no hassles at all. In fact, they paid return shipping and had UPS retrieve it from my porch.
I had the 'consumer' HAP-S1 which is not marketed at audiophiles but it sounded incredibly nice. Wish it were a bit more polished.
Take note, the Marantz NA-8005 has been announced.
$1200. Streams every format..192 kHz, DSD64/128.
Unlike the Sony..No silly proprietary format....no idiotic file transfer scheme, local file playback or Ethernet, Spotify, Pandora, etc...
Case closed.
The Marantz and most 'streamers' lack an integrated amp.
The Sony HAP-S1 is truly an 'all-in-one' solution with beautiful front panel display, but the overall implementation is rather cumbersome and buggy.
The Marantz is not 'case closed' as it does not fit MY specific need.
Does anyone else make a similar solution as the Sony HAP-S1 WITH built-in integrated amp?
I meant case closed about the Sony being a clumsy, not ready for prime time solution, not case closed on the Marantz being "the one".
As far as streamer with built in integrated amp, yes there a bunch on the market, more accurately, integrated amps with streamer modulues but not that do DSD as well.
Oh, I gotcha about the 'case closed' comment.
If you know of any integrated amps with streamer-like features that can handle hi-res PCM, that might be just the ticket for me. I own some DSD files but I never found them to be earth shattering or game changing over good PCM. I can live w/o them.
Thanks for review.
One thing that has hilariously over looked in Sony's "DSD 2.0" marketing slush is the fact that they have no download store to buy DSD files...superhirez has 250 albums lol.
As I said..DOA.
You are a beta tester of sorts for us at the Asylum.There are a handful of seasoned respected AA members of which you are certainly one of (Mike Samra, Morricab, Eli Dutton etc.) As such, I for one, assign at least as much value to your opinion(s) and reviews as the scribes from the various publications.
This even though our systems are not identical, or even similar. Good sound is good sound; And isn't that why we are all here?
I was considering the same piece of gear, but now thanks to your recent experience with the Sony I will wait until the wonks at Sony either address these issues, or I will buy a better, more refined product that IS ready for primetime.
Case in point; I was looking for a replacement DAC for my Schitt Bifrost under a $1000. I read that you were well pleased with your PS Audio NuWave, so I found one for $700 and bought it - I love it! It is significantly better in every way to the Bifrost (which is still a good dac) and it hasn't even been broken in yet.
So with that; Thank you, and the others like you that help the rest of us knuckle draggers make semi informed purchasing decisions.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
Edits: 06/16/14
.
I have a box I can attach my hard drive to, and it plays everything pretty well: it's called a Mac
Yeah, I have that box too! ;-)
It's coupled to my DAC, LCD monitor, and integrated amp.
The Sony box also has a built-in DAC and integrated amp so I was hoping that it would out in my small office. Oh well.
And accept my nomination for 'most useful poster'.
"The problem with quotes from the internet is that many of them just are just made up."
-Abraham Lincoln
Question about the album art problem. Does it just disregard the album art or any other tags you might have in your music files and use it's own?
I can't answer your question because I'm not sure, and it's already packed up sitting on my porch for UPS to remove it from my property! ;-)
I believe all the content is pulled from Gracenote.
I know that my album art on the computer is mostly what iTunes grabs from Gracenote and places in it's database, plus about 5% of my own that I grabbed from Amazon and other sources.
iTunes would sometimes pull down the wrong art or couldn't find it at all. The Sony uses Gracenote too but at least with a PC/Mac you can easily fix metadata like track names and artwork.
When the Sony messes up the metadata you either can't fix it or have to jump through too many hoops - back and forth on the Sony and PC/Mac to fix it.
IMHO, as a music player 'appliance' it should work better OR be easier to manage and fix. Is it a Gracenote issue? Maybe. If so, Sony should be aware of the limitations and allow users better control to make changes and fixes.
As you can tell, my biggest complaint revolves around content management.
Similarly, you have to manually 'build' your playlist. Whatever playlists you might have had on the computer will need to be manually recreated track by track on the Sony.
I also saw no way to search on file type. For example, I have a few albums at three or more different resolutions but all the tracks, 16/44 ALAC, 24/96 AIFF, 24/192 AIFF, DSF, etc., get grouped under one album with one album cover on the Sony. As an example, when you open an album on the Sony to view the tracks, you'll get four of track one with the same song name, four of track 2 with the same song name, etc. each at a different resolution.
I have these separated on my Mac. For example, Miles Davis Kind of Blue 44/16, Miles Davis Kind of Blue 24/94, Miles Davis Kind of Blue 24/192, and so on. I have the highest res version in my High Resolution playlist.
This would take hours of manual labor to set up on the Sony as you manually search for the track and resolution you want then manually add to a playlist. I couldn't find a way to search by resolution or file type on the Sony.
I can search a catalog, add to favorites, add to cue, etc with just about every app on about every music streaming service and every device I use.
Each of your three points is pretty well known from Sony's descriptions/manuals and already-published reviews. Doesn't it work the way that the iPod does?I loved the Z1 for what it was but it was not for me, just as the S1 is not for you. Their target market is elsewhere.
Edits: 06/16/14
.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I'll conceived because you are forced to use your PC/Mac to transfer music files over Ethernet or Wifi, a fairly slow process. And as I already mentioned, if you have music files on your computer why do you need the Sony? I knew that going in.
Why not allow one to attach a USB disk with content already on it? Why not allow direct downloads to the Sony player from maybe Sony's own music website and/or the Sony partners? The thing is attached to the internet to grab Gracenote metadata, why not grab music files too?
The problem is compounded by the fact that you have very little control, or very cumbersome control over the content that you did manage to transfer to the player, and the handful of bugs that need to be fixed.
I wanted this to work out. It would have been nice to have a compact all in one player / integrated amp in my office but I was spending too much time trying to manage it with my hands tied by it's limitations.
So I guess I am not Sony's target market, or maybe I'm just too used to having complete control with my Mac based setup. I wasn't willing to make the compromise.
But it does sound surprisingly nice for an all in one little box.
"Why not allow direct downloads to the Sony player from maybe Sony's own music website and/or the Sony partners? The thing is attached to the internet to grab Gracenote metadata, why not grab music files too?
Wouldn't work in my case. Most of my music files are hi-res classical albums purchased from HDtracks, eClassical, ProStudioMasters, and other sites. I would hardly expect the Sony to go out and re-download the files from those sites. How could it?
Russell
I'm not talking about re-downloading....
My thought was to allow the Sony to download music from Sony, HDtracks, Blue Coast Records, SuperHiRez.com, and other digital download sources IN ADDITION TO the files you transfer to it from your own PC/Mac.
The Sony is already attached to the internet to grab metadata from Gracenote (like album art and track names) so it's not too far-fetched to extend that capability to downloading music.
As for 're-downloading', that too is not beyond reach. Apple does it with their iTunes Store, App Store, and iCloud. I can 're-download' anything that I have previously purchased to any of my several Apple devices including laptops, iPhone, iPad, AppleTV, etc. I watch a movie on my iPad on the road. I can watch the same movie in my family room on the AppleTV, or on my Mac Mini in the study.
Other brands have similar solutions. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony does this with their PlayStation franchise as does MS with the Xbox.
Sony can take the HAP-S1 and 'high-end' HAP-Z1ES a lot further than they have but both are 1st generation products. Perhaps we'll see more capability and a more polished product the next go around.
'Ill conceived' hardly implies hidden, unknown or undisclosed, at least in my experience.
Professional reviewers might have have differing definitions?
It appeared to me that its operations were entirely analogous to those of the iPod which was a success. Not a bad model.
Edits: 06/16/14
With the iPod Touch one could download music directly from the iTunes Store via Wifi and internet. The iPhone can do the same over the cellular provider's data network. But as we all know, the music downloads from Apple are compressed AAC, not even close to CD quality.
It would be nice if Sony took the HAP-S1 or HAP-Z1ES a step further by allowing direct downloads from Sony's vast music collection, and it's Music Services co-marketing partners.
The Sony boxes are already connected to the internet for grabbing Gracenote metadata so it wouldn't be too farfetched to have them download complete music files.
/
It would have been so nice to place that compact ALL-in-ONE single box solution with built-in integrated amp on a shelf in my small office and control it all via iPhone or iPad. No more computer, outboard DAC, outboard integrated amp, keyboard/mouse, LCD screen, USB cable, interconnect cables, backup disks, etc. etc.
Unfortunately, the Sony has too many nagging limitations and bugs making it a hassle to manage if you seek perfection or near perfection. For a thousand bucks I expected better, maybe I expected too much.
My main frustration was with album art that matched the artist and I wanted it 100% correct, or given the opportunity to easily fix it.
I hate seeing Tom Petty's mug show up in the player software app on my iPad when I'm listening to The Doors! Or scrolling through all the album art (which is how I often quickly recognize what I'm looking for vs browsing through pages of text) only to launch the album from the artwork then find the wrong tracks and artist 'inside' the album.
I keep my vinyl records in their correct album covers. I guess technology isn't quite there to do the same automatically and 100% correct. I can live with that BUT at least let me easily fix the mistakes! Nope, not on the Sony.
Blah! Get this thing out of here!
I hope that I am! I think I have more modest needs.
I am gradually building a Download Collection, along with Recordings that I've done Live.
I can't imagine having 6000 Tunes, much less albums!
Only my very favorite things will go on it, I hope that building it a little at a time may be less stressful.
I don't have a computer based system, so I won't have that to compare it to.
Playing DSD files will be my main focus.
I wonder when they will update these players?
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