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In Reply to: RE: Was there a difference in Playback Volume? posted by Kal Rubinson on April 20, 2014 at 14:13:16
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It would be an understatement to say that a lot of potential users would be concerned whether the balanced output was properly implemented. Knowing the screwed up job that the designer, Inazumi had done previously on the SCD-1's balanced outputs, you would think that he had learnt better since the last decade to do a proper job this time around. That the reviewer didn't bothered to check shows how inept he is.
I have a loan unit of HAP-Z1ES on test in my system right now. But unfortunately I am unable to check this myself, because the owner has disabled the unbalanced outputs internally. I bet he would be pleased to know if indeed the single ended outputs do sound better, and would reinstate them the instance he collects it back from me.
> That the reviewer didn't bothered to check shows how inept he is.
Stereophile's review of the HAP-Z1ES did examine the behavior from both
the balanced and unbalanced output jacks. Yes, the output level is the
same from both outputs but the balanced output impedance is twice as high
as the unbalanced. This is exactly what you would expect, each phase of the
balanced signal being sourced from the same impedance as the unbalanced
signal.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Yes, John, first of all, the inclusion of your measurement does not hide the fact that this reviewer has neglected investigating an important attribute of the product that potential buyers would be very concerned with - the subjective performance of its balanced vs its unbalanced outputs - and I remember many times in the past, whenever an expensive product fell short under your microscope, you have always felt the need to remind your devoted readers that measurement isn't meant to replace actual listening and from it, derive a subjective interpretation.And secondly, Kal did also missed out one important fact - those balanced outputs were found to invert absolute polarity! So did Kal's sample sound as good as it did because of the positive waves were going south and negative waves were heading north - like what had happened with Art Dudley when he reviewed the sony original play station and found it to sound "very good" despite it also inverting absolute polarity?
And I specifically point out "Kal's sample" because from looking at the photo used in the review, which shows a section of the back panel where the balanced output are located, the printed wiring configuration information specified that the XLR outputs are wired pin2 hot and pin3 cold. So was this photo taken from "Kal's sample" or was it a photo provided by Sony taken from another sample? Did Sony's technical and design teams had a communication cockup that ended up with the printed technical information on the product being different from the actual product itself? Or did you made a mistake with your polarity measurement, so that's why Kal hadn't felt the need to point out any sonic aberrations associated with this issue in his subjective review? If your measurement is correct, then why didn't you point out the errors in the printed information as shown in the photo? Who between you and Kal in stereophile cocked up?
Yes, both of you do need to answer for each of your own shoddy work.
Edits: 04/24/14
Hmmm ...
Who is at fault here? You for trying to criticize something you clearly didn't read, or the editor of a magazine for defending the article?
Sorry, this time you lose.
Pick another fight. Or perhaps go and listen to some music and enjoy yourself rather than squabble?
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How can I point out the error John made with reference with the photo used in the review if I hadn't read the review?
> Kal did also missed out one important fact - those balanced outputs were
> found to invert absolute polarity!This, too, was mentioned in the review, on p.75.
> looking at the photo used in the review, which shows a section of the back
> panel where the balanced output are located, the printed wiring
> configuration information specified that the XLR outputs are wired pin2
> hot and pin3 cold. So was this photo taken from "Kal's sample" or was it
> a photo provided by Sony taken from another sample?We had two samples of the DHP-Z1ES, one for photography and one for
auditioning and measurement. However, the rear-panel photo was supplied
by Sony.> did you made a mistake with your polarity measurement?
No.
> If your measurement is correct, then why didn't you point out the errors
> in the printed information as shown in the photo?At the time I performed the measurements and wrote them up, I hadn't seen
the detail photo. So yes, it is now apparent that there is a discrepancy
between what the manufacturer claims and the measured reality. Won't be
the first time and won't be the last.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Edits: 04/24/14
So are you and Kal, the same and only one person?
He, was the one did the listening, but at no time, throughout his entire review did he point out the absolute polarity reversal issue.
So don't get mixed up, ok?
Also, the other thing is - both sets of outputs were found to invert absolute polarity, so perhaps it is presumptuous for you to say the unit you had for measurement has its XLR jacks wired with pin3 hot. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say that the unit inverts absolute polarity in the digital domain.
At the time you performed the measurements and wrote them up, you hadn't check the photo in detail before it goes out to print. So yes, it is now apparent that there is a discrepancy. Won't be the first time and won't be the last.
Why do you continue to be insulting? Obviously absolute polarity is very
important to you, but the reality is that other than with purist
recordings, where absolute polarity has been captured in a consistent
manner, it's a crap shoot. Don't you feel that there is room for sincere
differences of opinion here? Or do you feel your own opinion over-rides
all others?I suspect that our sample of the HAP-Z1ES, which was from early production,
conformed to the Japanese convention of pin 3 hot.And again, you are cherry-picking your data in order to criticize the
magazine. You must consider a Stereophile review in its entirety. No, Kalman
Rubinson didn't comment on any differences between the balanced and
unbalanced outputs. But the review as a whole _did_ so so. No, Kalman
Rubinson didn't comment on the Sony inverting absolute polarity. But the
review as a whole _did_ do so.Please try to answer without resorting _again_ to insults.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Edits: 04/26/14
John, John, don't_get_your_feathers_all_flustered."....I suspect that our sample of the HAP-Z1ES, which was from early production,
conformed to the Japanese convention of pin 3 hit...."You did mentioned the unbalanced outputs invert absolute polarity also, don't_you_remember?
That means it is more than just a wiring issue at the XLR outputs.
Edits: 04/25/14 04/25/14
This is a perfect example why you must never believe any review these days always listen for yourself. Fortunately with Sony you can purchase and return for a full refund within 30 days.
Regardless of whether or not the unit you have right now has the single ended outputs disabled, or a reviewer of which you seem to have an axe to grind with missed a step (perhaps a deadline issue?), does the unit sound good enough to warrant your purchasing it?
I recall 2 times in the past that uber high end reviewers praised 2 20 + k products with glaring technical problems with the components under review. It was as though the reviews were written without actually hearing the units. I heard one of the exact amps that was reviewed, and over 2 watts output a horrific noise came from both channels. No one called either reviewer out. So what gives?
I like the RCA Outs on my Stock Sony 5400 better than Bal, and not by just a little!
The Bal on the 5400 is also 2V, same as RCA, and of course same as the the Z1.
So I'd be willing to say I would use RCA on the Z1.
I used the same brand and model cables when I compared, except for the Connectors.
Why did your friend do that? Maybe he liked the Balanced better, or was he just assuming that?
Seems kind of extreme, to disable the outputs.
I think that it is very cool that both Modwright and Red Wine Audio are offering mods for this player.
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