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In Reply to: RE: Sony SCDXA5400ES balanced output level posted by TGT on January 31, 2014 at 12:24:06
I found the manual online and it's 2V balanced or unbalanced. Output impedance is much higher unbalanced (10K v 600 ohms) Unless you're using a passive linestage this shouldn't be an issue. Also few passive linestages have both bal/unbal connections. Why did you want to know, just curious.
ET
Follow Ups:
...because I am using a TVC and in future I am planning of getting a source with XLR connections. AFAIK, TVCs are not affected by the impedance as much as an active line stage is. Either this is a wrong statement or I must have misunderstood an online article's intention - don't know.
In any case I always assumed that XLR has twice the "output" volts as compared to RCA because of the + and - legs. So instead of getting 2V, if I get 4V at volume position 12 on my TVC, the sound would be noticeably better. I have already experience this happen when I replaced the RCA between my TVC and amp. There was this immediate "heft" to the sound that makes the RCA sounds lifeless. My TVC is balanced and I feel that my system will realize it's full potential if I use a Balanced source.
Any corrections or additional inputs will be appreciated!
The TVC is a passive device and will be much more subject to frequency response anomalies caused by impedance mismatch and capacitance than will an active device. For example, one would have to be very careful about cable capacitance and the input impedance of your TVC, if using the RCA outputs of the Sony. You'd want your TVC to present at least a 50K ohm input impedance, 100K would be better.
Are you very sure about this? A TVC works differently from a passive preamp and that is why I ask.
I was indeed thinking of a resistive network, even though you clearly wrote "TVC". There are still some rules to follow, but not the same as for resistive.
Go to this site http://www.decware.com/newsite/zstage.html. Read the manual on the ZSTAGE. It implies a greater voltage at input will “add great weight, punch and overall power to the presentation... the kind that's just not possible with a standard 2 volt source.”
sounding Stereos."
It says the Box increases the Output Voltage to 4-5 Volts.
It also mentions it create " a difference in sound".
I don't know, seems fishy to me!
Nearly all amplifiers require no more than 2V for full output. Many, if not most, can be driven to full output with less signal voltage than that, even. Moreover, most of us are not (ever) driving our amplifiers to full output. Their statement that 4-5V gives better bass response has a bogus ring to it.
Not fishy at all.
Have you guys tried this? I have experienced this with my Parasound A21 and my Promitheus TVC. When I had an RCA between the two, the sound was thin and kind of lifeless. But an XLR made it so "full". It gave the necessary "heft" to the sound.
I don't know why, but from personal experience I am not going to go back to RCA between my TVC and my amp. If ever I change to an active line stage, then it is a different story.
So that experiment tells you that for your system, balanced (XLR) sounds better than single-ended (RCA). I can understand that. However, your experiment does not prove at all that the reason balanced sounds better has anything to do with the stated difference in max signal voltage between XLR and RCA.However, with a TVC, I can imagine one way in which the greater output voltage of the source component could be of value for a "fuller" sound. The TVC attenuates by reducing the signal voltage that reaches the amplifier through converting voltage into current. The high output voltage of the source is reduced for presentation to the amplifier input, depending upon which of the many taps from the TVC secondary you are using, while current is proportionately increased. (The product of current X voltage has to remain constant, for a perfect transformer.) Thus, depending on the output impedance of your source and the input impedance of the amplifier, the 4V of the balanced outputs may be of some value for maintaining or establishing a wider bandwidth. Also, did we say that the balanced outputs have a different output impedance, as well? That would add to the number of moving parts in this situation. Lower output impedance would be additionally favorable. Interconnect length and capacitance also play a role in bandwidth, even with a TVC.
Edits: 02/05/14
I've been switching between the SE and XLR inputs of a Parasound JC-2, an analog stereo preamp, with output from an Oppo BDP-105. There appears to be no level nor sound quality difference between the two. When I switch with a CD or SACD playing, it sounds continuous even though the indicator lights show a switch has occurred.
I plan to try the same comparison using the Sony XA5400ES, assuming both SE and XLR outputs are simultaneously active. Oppo claims there to be no quality difference between SE or XLR stereo, but Sony makes no such claim AFAIK.
db
When I switch the Parasound JC-2 input from XLR to SE from the Sony XA5400ES the level is decidedly higher, presumably because of the difference in Sony output impedance. I do not notice a difference in the quality of sound, but it is a more difficult judgement than with the Oppo BDP-105 where the sound seems continuous as you switch.
In essence, the sound quality from either the Oppo or the Sony in either SE or XLR is superb.
db
My Mac C2500 connected to my 275 amp, sounds fuller/richer with RCA, a little dry/recessed in balanced.
Playback Vol is virtually the same.
If the output is higher, you can turn it up a little less, lower output, a little more.
I don't see why it would matter, but I'll check out the article.
I was so surprised to read your quote of the owner's manual that I had to check it for myself. Indeed you are correct, the 5400 is said to have an output Z in SE mode of "over 10K ohms". I still find that hard to believe, unless they use a buffer to derive the balanced output which also simultaneously achieves a vast reduction in output Z (to "over 600 ohms). That's what they did do in the old SCD1, but I am not aware of the output Z of an SCD1 (or an SCD777ES) via its RCA jacks. I still would have thought it would be lot lower. I would have thought that Sony learned the folly of first deriving a SE signal from what is naturally a balanced signal and then re-converting it back to balanced with a buffer stage (what they did in the SCD1). Apparently not.
This means one would have to be very careful about IC capacitance and about the input Z of the driven linestage, when using the RCA outputs. You'd want the inputs to be at least 100K ohms; a lot of linestages do not achieve that. That said, I have a borrowed XA5400ES driving a Klyne preamp and it sounds superb. Now I know that it shouldn't work so well, I will have to listen more critically. (Joke.)
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