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In Reply to: RE: SACD player? posted by ChesshireCat on January 26, 2014 at 13:09:19
I recently bought the Yamaha CD-S1000
A little bit more than your budget @ $1,300 but I absolutely love the sound.
Follow Ups:
I saw the drive of the 2000 unit on a bench at the Melbourne Audio Show. Seriously engineered - if you were told it was Esoteric you wouldn't blink. Some blurb said it wasn't intended for the mass market - apparently they've done good job of keeping it secret.
I spent quite some time at Yamaha's home page translating Japanese into English. Below is a translated link with an interview with the people behind those players.
Edits: 01/29/14
I will second that. I have the CD-S2000 and am very impressed with its performance with both Redbook and SACD discs. It is very well built and attractively styled. I think the only real difference between the 1000 and the 2000 is balanced outs on the 2000. If you shop around, you should be able to pick one of these two players up with a steep discount from MSRP.
it's only available in black in the US (AFAIK). The tiny gray lettering on a black background doesn't work for my eyes. The demographic for $7k CD players is more than likely "older" with corresponding vision acuity.
Available in at least Australia, is the also the silver with light wood side; a much more handsome unit, IMO.
Marantz is also on my S.L., having gone to black only. A huge cosmetic blunder, again, IMO.
I have always wondered about these Yamaha players. They look so attractive and sturdy. But they were never auditioned by mainstream audio sites/mags. And I could not find any Vs comparison of these players against say, Marantz or Esoteric, etc. The CD-S3000 seems to have most functionality for a 2-channel stereo, but is way too expensive.
I tried for a couple of years without success to find either a decent review of the Yamaha machine in the audio press or a dealer in my area with a demo unit to audition. Not a single shop within 250 miles had one in stock a year after the product was released. The CD-S2000 became a rarity immediately after it was launched into the market; and the inattention from the audio pundits has always puzzled me. Nevertheless, I needed a backup for my aging SCD777ES, which is 14 years old and is now unfixable if certain critical but unobtainable parts in the transport fail. So, without ever hearing or seeing one, I bought a dealer demo CD-S2000 advertised on Audiogon at a very deep discount a couple of years ago from a seller hundreds of miles away. Over the years I owned several of the great 70s era silver faced Yamaha tuners and amps and I know that Yamaha can build quality audio products when they put in the effort. And I was not disappointed with the new unit. I think the Yamaha CD-S2000 is a superb player and well worth the money at a street price of around $1800. It is a little bit leaner and brighter than my old Sony on SACD playback, but I think most of us who run 2 channel systems would be more than happy with its sonic qualities. And, as mentioned above, it is solidly built and presents an attractive functional retro design.
As things turned out, I recently replaced the still perfectly running Sony with a Marantz SA11-S3, which sounds much better in my setup than either the Sony or Yamaha player. So now I have two quality backup players boxed up in the basement in case the Marantz ever starts smoking. One or more of them will someday end up in the hands of my nephew after I pass into that great listening room in the sky. Perhaps the astronomically priced CD-S3000 will be setup there for my eternal listening pleasure.
Nice post sleeper!
Thank you for sharing. Can you please let me know the differences you hear between the Marantz and the Yamaha? Do the units sound "louder" when connected to the amp via XLR Vs RCA? I wish the Marantz could do DSD over USB. But this is one player that I am seriously eyeing. I hope Marantz releases a firmware that will make this player do DSD over USB.
The Marantz has better imaging and soundstaging in my rig. And it is a bit less bright, giving vocals for example a "rounder" and more life-like quality. Orchestral music seems to have more "weight" and sounds "bigger". It also projects a slightly "forward" sound stage, in comparison to the Sony and the Yamaha, which are "laid back". And there you have pushed me to the limits of my audio reviewer vocabulary. I simply perceive the Marantz as sounding better on SACD. But, the Yamaha still sounds great. You do not gain a whole lot by paying the premium for the Marantz SA11-S3 over the CD-S2000, but there is a real bump up in audio quality in my opinion in my setup in my less-than-perfect listening room. If you are going to pop another $1000 for the Marantz vs the Yamaha, make sure you take one home for an on-site audition in your own system before you write a big check. After all, it all boils down to just what you like - no player in the world can completely reproduce the sound field of the Atlanta Symphony in the Woodruff Arts Center Hall.
Yes, it will not do DSD via USB, but it will decode just about everything else. The absence of DSD-USB-processing does not bother me too much - I have yet to jump on the download bandwagon and still like to hold the product that I paid for in my hand, read the liner notes, and admire the photos and artwork. The Marantz DAC works really well with my wife's IPad as a source, which contributes to a high spouse acceptance factor. She can run her entire audio library right into the big rig directly from the IPad screen with a few finger swipes.
I have not compared the single ended to the balanced output (which I use in my setup) for either the Marantz or the Yamaha (the Sony 777 has only single ended outputs). I believe that in general from the same device a balanced output signal level will be approximately double that of the single ended output signal level. It should therefor produce a higher SPL from the speakers than a single ended output signal sent to a preamp which is set at a fixed volume. But, I think this also depends on the design of the preamp and how it processes balanced versus single ended inputs.
I have my iTunes library of Apple Lossless Alac files in an external HD. Can any of these players decode the Alac files directly via USB? Primiarily I am interested in the Yamaha and Marantz. I know Oppo 105D can.
Thanks!
Figaro
I have the three players Lew mentioned, the Ayre C-5xeMP, Oppo 105, and Sony XA5400ES, connected to a Parasound JC-2 preamp via XLR and Proceed HPA-2 amp driving KEF Reference 107/2 speakers. In my setup, I think the Ayre is the best sounding of the three, especially for CDs, but the Sony is close for DSD, not close for CDs. In comparison, the Oppo seems a bit bright and a little thin for CDs and SACDs, but its sound is superb for DTS-HD MA. Only the Ayre gives me the sense that a small jazz or chamber group, or a vocalist is in my room. But only the Oppo plays analog surround. If I had to live with a single player, it would be the Oppo, the Swiss Army disc player that does everything very well.
db
Excellent db.
I only use HDMI where the Sony XA5400ES sounds best especially compared to the Oppo 103, furthermore the Oppo is IMO very inferior to the Sony BDP 1000ES for BD sound & video ,universal players are a compromise .
Sleeper,
Thank You for the detailed explanation. I have been using a Marantz SA8260 for the past 9 years. Been pretty happy with it and so will not hesitate to choose a Marantz again. But I would not like to limit myself to that brand when other options are available. I have supported SACD over the years and believe that DSD can do the same justice to music. I am not into download myself. But once I hace a DAC/player with this capability, I for sure will dive into downloading DSD- especially for titles that are currently not available for purchase as SACD or those that are premium priced.
The Esoterics tempt me a lot, but are waaaaay out of my budget. Same with Yamaha S3000. I wish, they came out with a reasonably priced DAC that has HDMI and supports DSD. That way I could purchase this DAC and the Oppo BDP-105 and call it a day!
Thanks! for sharing Sleeper.
I,too, am interested in the newest Yamaha S-3000. Unbelieveable specs on that model, the best that I have seen in a long time.
It certainly looks like a great machine on paper - and it better be for $6000! My guess is that, like the 2000, it will be hard to find one at a shop to audition. If you get a chance to listen to it. post your impressions. As for me, I probably have enough SACD players to make it to the end game and beyond. If I were to bring home yet another player, especially at $6000, it would probably be heaved into the flames of the crematorium with my murdered remains.
Agreed,
it would be of interest to me how Yamaha arrived at the suggested $6K price for the S-3000. The company should have set the price at $4K.
This is a better value for us consumers.
At a MSRP of $6000, Yamaha will have a difficult time selling the CD-S3000 against the $4000 Marantz SA11-S3. The specs and feature sets are almost identical There will have to be at least a 50% bump up in sound quality for the Yamaha's price to work.
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