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In Reply to: RE: Dave, it it's like the BDP-93... posted by rlw on January 12, 2014 at 10:05:26
You're right. You CAN adjust the Oppo BDP-83SE to play the CD layer of SACDs. It took setting up the monitor to do it, and while I was in the "setup menu" I rechecked everything and made a few back/forth setting adjustments. Verdict? CDs on the Oppo sound not much worse than SACDs, at least with the Shostakovich and a couple other SACD hybrids.
Bad news? The Raysonic on CD sounds substantially better than the Oppo on CD (this is without benefit of an external DAC on the Ray). I knew that. What I wasn't ready to admit to myself is that it's increasingly clear the Oppo on SACD is not quite ready for prime time. At least in my system.
At least it sounds better than the Marantz 8260. Swell.
Follow Ups:
Dave,
Well I can assure you the Oppo 95 and 105 are ready for prime time SACD. The Take Five track of the Dave Brubeck Quartet's Time Out SACD should convince you. But it's only SACD, so you can't compare SACD with a CD layer.
If you're the same Dave Pogue who writes the Mac guides, I like those.
db
Wrong Dave Pogue, but I like him (the other one) too :-)
I don't know what's wrong with my BDP-83SE, if anything. Just noticed that despite setting the output for DSD, my monitor says PCM, so I guess I need to call Oppo about that.
As to the Brubeck SACD, I'm playing it right now. Single-layer stereo version. Sounds okay, but frankly my vinyl copy sounds better and my reel-to-reel (4-track) tape version beats 'em both. I've done three-way, level-matched comparos for some of my audiobuddies and they've been pretty amazed.
I do want to like SACD and I want to like the Oppo but I'm feeling kind challenged at the moment.
I asked them about the PCM issue a while ago. I forget the exact situation, but I think having the monitor on does that. You can test which mode it is in by using the Oppo volume; DSD will not be affected by the volume. So I learned to keep the volume and 100% and the TV off if I wanted DSD on my BDP-83.
But I noticed what you did too, that my DAC with CDs sounds generally better than SACDs on my Oppo. So I don't listen to SACDs anymore unless they have a CD layer. I started looking at DACs to get better sound from CDs than I got w/ my Oppo. Bifrost was a big step up. I moved that to my secondary system and use a DAC in my main system which ends my digital journey of many years. But one day I need to get some HDMI to SPDIF converter so that I can play my few non-hybrid SACDs through my good DAC.
I've compared the sound of the 45 RPM of Take Five on my vintage Thorens TD 124 with SME Series III arm and Ortofon SME 30H cartridge with that of the SACD played on my Oppo 105 and Sony 5400ES. The sound especially with the 105 is remarkably similar to the vinyl, although the vinyl may locate the musicians with a slight bit more precision.
After having used 1/2 inch 15 ups Ampex 350 consoles in the lab, I'm all too familiar with the foibles of magnetic storage, so I've never indulged in a personal tape player.
db
I'm curious about your last paragraph. I've had reel-to-reel tape decks among my primary music sources since the 1960s. Given that open reel is definitely a "hair shirt" medium (just try finding a specific track in a 7-inch or 10.5-inch reel), I'm not clear on what you mean by "the foibles of magnetic storage" and why they should be avoided.
Dave,
Print-through, tape deterioration, and the need to keep the heads carefully aligned are the issues I recall. Although not an issue with the Ampex 350s nor the portable Nagra, I understand speed stability can be with lesser recorders. Anyway, I never wanted an audio tape recorder for personal use. I did have an early video tape recorder, though. IIRC, it was surplus from some Silicon Valley enterprise, and very cheap.
db
You either put up with open reel tape's "hair shirt" aspects, or you don't. I wouldn't be without my Otari and deHavilland tapehead preamp, and I've found the medium provides way more pleasure than pain. It helps to have a great tape tech available to me.
Dave,
I forgot to mention that the rule in the lab was never fast forward or rewind. To do so increases the likelihood of print-through. More hair shirt stuff. I'll bet those Ampex 350s went to surplus along with the Mac MC 60s and Altec VOT-500s.
db
it's a really crappy player compared to the real players like Meitner, Ayre, Audio Aero, Esoteric etc. etc.
Some folks have skewed expectations. But at the end of the day, - the elements that make a great sounding combo player are really expensive, and just can't be had for under $5K: IMO.
IMO, SACD players have to be judged on how well they play redbook: as there simply aren't that many good SACDs that make it worth sucking up rack space with 3 or four different sources.
The last time I looked at an Oppo mainboard, I was shocked by all of the traces: it was a few years ago though.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
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