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Although we have our share of crazed, delusionary inmates here on the asylum (I proudly count myself among them!), I still think we have some way to go before we can match the levels of delusion regularly encountered on the SA-CD.net site. The latest case involves the recent Tacet recording listed above - available in two formats, SACD and blu-ray audio. As with the study of wine tasters who reported that a given wine tasted better the more expensive they thought it was, there are certain listeners who will swear DSD always sounds better than PCM regardless of the actual facts connected with the recording.
There has been some discussion on SA-CD.net's Tacet thread about the recording shown above, and I was interested to read the following comments:
- "I've played quite a bit. . . in orchestras and this is the first time during playback of a recording, I felt as though I was sitting in the middle of the orchestra during it's performance. That's quite eerie, as I'm well aware of how that actually sounds."
- "this SA-CD is definitely from a DSD master"
- "'La Valse' has the sonic signature of DSD all over it, especially in the sound of massed strings. I believe I must have listened to that piece four or five times consecutively, and that is the impression I get from it. . . where there's smoke, there's usually fire."
Despite all the smoke, there's one way to find out for sure, and that's to contact the CEO of Tacet, Andreas Spreer. I did just that a couple of days ago, indicating that I was undecided as to whether to purchase the SACD or the blu-ray audio, and asking if he could tell me the format of the master for this recording to help me decide. I just got Herr Spreer's reply earlier today: the master is 24/96 PCM. Oops!
I just ordered the blu-ray from JPC and am eagerly awaiting the DSD signature sound of the massed strings! ;-)
Follow Ups:
Just to mention that it is actually apparently available in three formats; redbook too. I have the latter and it sounds pretty good. Performances are good but not special. Interestingly the artwork of the Blu-ray and SACD versions do not show the logo that is on the redbook one and which relates to the USP of the recording - that it was made with entirely with tube mics.
Oh yes, it can be bought on vinyl too!
There is an LP of it as well - OK, partial only - Bolero and I think La Valse. Plays from the inside out to avoid inner groove distortion at the loud end of Bolero.
Thanks for that information. Actually I did mention the existence of the vinyl release but the news that it plays inside out is fascinating. However no matter how much I think about it I cannot understand how you could play such a thing on a conventional turntable. Any ideas - am I missing the obvious? Perhaps for Vinyl Asylum?
Imagine it with a groove with only 3-4 turns. There was a series of LPs from Riverside Records called "Fortissimo" that was similar to this.
I don't quite understand the mirror image idea. I tried it it on a piece of paper and looked at it in a mirror. It doesn't seem to work unless the turntable turns in the opposite direction, but the music still starts at the outer edge. Am I missing something?
I have about six of those Fortissimo records. I picked them up cheap at record swap meets. The groove is cut from the inside to the outside and simply guides the stylus from the inside to the outside. The lathe needs to be modified so the cutting head moves from the inside to the outside, rather than the opposite as in normal disc cutting.
It's awkward to drop the stylus in the inner groove if you don't have the drop/lift lever on your turntable.
In mirror image writing like da Vinci did, the image only changes from left to right, it doesn't change from top to bottom.
Try holding a normal record up to a mirror. The music still starts at the outer edge, doesn't it? A turntable turning in the opposite direction would play it normally.
I don't see that drawing a mirror image is any different from seeing it in the mirror. Maybe I've had too much turkey. Oops, I'm in California, and Thanksgiving dinner is still many hours away :-).
AI don't understand all the confusion. A standard record starts from the outside ans spirals inward. This other type starts at the inside and spirals outward. What's not to get?
The reason that I suggested making a mirror image drawing rather than looking at it in the mirror is that the former will let you turn it as if it was on your turntable and you can (should) see that putting the stylus at the label will cause it to track from inside out.
But the music will play backwards. It will be like a 2-track stereo tape wound tails out and played without rewinding first.
Write down the alphabet on a paper thus: abc....xyz and put an arrow in the direction the information reads.
Draw a spiral on the same paper (1½ spiral is enough) with an arrow to show the direction the information reads.
Look at it in the mirror. You will see that the information will only read correctly on the spiral if the rotation is reversed. The mirror image doesn't make the music start on the inside, so for me it's an imperfect comparison.
But I give up.
.
The mirror bit was just to show you how the stylus would track the groove from inside to outside with the turntable running in the standard direction.
It was always presumed that the recording would be cut in the same direction that it is played, otherwise the music would be backward.
This whole mirror image thing has complicated the matter .The direction of the cutting remains the same. In one case the grooves move from outside to inside and the other case the grooves move from inside to outside. Simple
Alan
Thanks Kal. It took me a bit of effort to visualise this but drawing a spiral and an inverse spiral on paper and placing them on my rotating turntable helped me see the light.
It made me wonder why record companies didn't regularly produce discs that played inside out when faced with cutting loud musical finales. Then I remembered autochangers and automatic end of side lifting devices. Such discs would not have been playable by the majority of consumers of the day as they couldn't have placed the pickup at the start of the spiral. Shame, missed opportunity.
The latest nonsense on SACD.net is balanced & 'quality 'playback by Ken Ishiwata's friend. WilHelm-Xu.Zhong Rui
Edits: 11/23/13
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