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In Reply to: RE: REVIEW: Vacuum State Electronics VSE modified Sony SCD-XA5400ES with Terra Firma Lite SACD Player (Modded) posted by Metralla on August 09, 2009 at 15:49:59
Good review. I am sure it is great but you say it competes with other heavy hitters.....yet, none of these were there to compare against.....so how do you know that? Are there reviews of the modded Sonys versus these other players?.....if so, where?
Follow Ups:
You are correct - I made no comparison. Looking at what I wrote:
With that, you get a player that can compete with the best SACD players out there – the heavy-hitters like the Meitner two-box, the Playback Design, the big Esoteric and the APL.
In my defence, I wrote that the player "CAN COMPETE WITH". Perhaps I should have written "MAY COMPETE WITH" to make it clearer that it was somewhat hypothetical.
Regards,
Geoff
Hi Rick;
Let me jump in here please! Send the $15,000--$20,000 heavy hitter to me
I will pay shipping. Quality parts? aside, the business world tells me
these sometimes,not always, flagship models are attention getters and
lead hopefully into a trickle down sales effect. Do you REALLY believe
any owner of the heavy hitters or his few dealers would send or loan
the player to me for possible in depth review?? If I were the company
owner I would forbid any dealer to even let you bring a VSEI upgraded
player into the store for a brief comparison! As the owner I am in
business to make some money not to satisfy some audiophile nuts that
think they hear a little difference on one CD! Rick, we are hobbyists
and a few of us are real music lovers. Real music lovers go to hear
live music concerts with unamplified instruments!! Why do they have
to be unamplified--because different amps sound different and are not
a reference to our recordings. When may I expect delivery of a real
heavy hitter? I notice in this thread of posts a list of them,
half of which are NOT heavy hitters-just expensive.
"Do you REALLY believe any owner of the heavy hitters or his few dealers would send or loan the player to me for possible in depth review?? If I were the company owner I would forbid any dealer to even let you bring a VSEI upgraded player into the store for a brief comparison!"
That's not the point and you know it.
If I wrote a review of a SET amp I thought was as good as it got, and to reinforce my opinion I stated that it competed with the Audio Note Ongaku and other heavy hitters, it wouldn't mean diddly squat if I'd never heard the Ongaku or other similarly priced SET amps.
I've no doubt whatsoever that this latest modded player is excellent and wouldn't say that it couldn't compete with the 'big hitters' as I'd back a well modified player against a stock player any day with only a couple of exceptions.
Making comparisons to competitors that the reviewer has no experience of, at least not in a similar system, is a massive turn-off to me and casts the rest of the review in a different light.
If the reviewer would stick to saying he hasn't heard a better player at any price this would get the message across and could not be questioned in any way by sceptic like myself who don't necessarily believe a player's quality is being exaggerated, just that other players shouldn't be used to hype a player with comparisons which have never been made.
Finally, off-hand I can think of Alex at APL who is always keen on 'shoot-outs' with competing players, and I bought my first Audio Note DAC when Peter Qvortrup offered to send one to Rich to compare against his Sony SCD-1/777ES if memory serves me right.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
Chris; Yes, I have had experience with heavy hitters in systems that
their manufacturers would consider superior to mine year after
year at CES and THE SHOW plus have had manufacturers come to my home
in sunny Florida in the winter months to make certain all is correct
to properly evaluate their components.After my surprise introduction to VSEI'upgrades, I would have preferred shelling out for any single chassis player instead of purchasing the four Sony players I now own plus an Esoteric and have a OPPO waiting for Bill Thalmann to do the VSEI magic
to it to add another BluRay machine for my use. As you can tell my logic
was following a promising person/outlook for years. It was not a money
saving decision! I simply having been chasing the potential best for a long time plus backup player. Tell me which single chassis player is
better sounding. As you may have noticed,now I try, exception coming,
to review components as little as possible because I spend months for
one and then tend to get static from any that do not really know me.
Brief music reviews "pushing classical music" interests me so much
more though my offer to pay for shipping a heavy-hitter to me still
stands. What more can I do than listen at manufacturers' demonstrations??
I replied to you mistaking you for the reviewer of the VSE player when you said "Yes, I have had experience with heavy hitters in systems that
their manufacturers would consider superior to mine year after
year at CES".
The point I made was that the reviewer didn't appear to make any comparisons to the 'big hitters' he claimed the modded player competed with, and the point still stands.
I see Metralla acknowledges he should perhaps have used different phrasing and fair play to him for that.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
That's all I needed to know so thanks for the response - puts the review in a better light for me and like I said, I'd never under-estimate how well an expertly modified player will compare to the 'established' marque brands.
In fact I've just bought an old modified dual TDA1541S1 Sony for my second system which is apparently a world-beater after having a 'proper' valve output fitted among other changes, though I've yet to hear it for myself.
It is a healthy state of affairs however when we're getting increasingly excited about digital front ends, rather than comparing them unfavourably to vinyl.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
I have seen the fabled Audio Note Ongaku two or three times. In not one instance was it connected and playing music. Fabled indeed.
I'd have taken an accomplice, created a diversion and hooked it up myself.
You've got no sense of adventure Ozzie.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
On your website you say
"Mods to the new Oppo BDP-83 Blue Ray Player.....the only game in town.
All other mods are discontinued......just not worth it. This machine sets a new precedent! I might do some mods to the new Sony 5400 SACD/CD player but really don't expect it to be much better than the Oppo"
How do you knoww that?? did you do any comparison??
Just curious!!
No, I have not A/Bed a fully modifed Oppo versus a fully modified 5400. It would be interesting. You see I did say.....did not expect it to be much better. Maybe it is....maybe it isn't. But the Oppo is $500 and sounds outrageous modified, plays DVDAs, DADs, HDCDs, Video DVD, Blue Rays and mutltichannel via analog....none of which the Sony can do. And for the price of the Terra Firma Lite clock you get a ton of tweaks, EVSclock, super output stages, modified super low impedance regulators, etc., that make is sound amazing.As Allen did and stated here, I will give a free mod to the first person that sends me a 5400 to have me work up a mod on. I will also have a superclock and discrete output stage...it would be fun to see which one is better. My clock, discrete output stages, transport mods, damping, etc. would be less than $1000 once the mod is set.....and yes, it could be made balanced for a few more coins.
Edits: 08/10/09 08/10/09 08/10/09
That would be an interesting comparison as total pricing would be similar.
Obviously the 5400 would be a fully run in machine.
What whould you suggest we try out our new baby against? What do you consider to be a "heavy hitter".
Geoff compared the 5400 to my Level 7 Upgraded SCD-777ES with UberClock, and actually preferred the 5400.
This Level 7 SCD-777ES has been the focus of a series of reviews done by Karl Lozier, for this forum and for Positive FeedBack magazine, and I believe he considers it a heavy hitter.
Another reviewer in the US compared his own Level 6 DVP-S9000ES against a fully Meitner system and said the Upgraded SONY was clearly superior, and Karl says the SCD-1/SCD-777ES is superior in many ways to a similarly Upgraded DVP-S900ES. This comparison has been done by several owners around the world, all are happy the Upgraded unit is better sounding than the Meitner.
Geoff has a XA-777ES as modified by yourself, he told me it's not in the same arena, although we haven't been able to do a head to head comparison. I am always interesting checking out my work against that of the big guys, what do you suggest?
Regards, Allen (Vacuum State)
Allen,
I have read Karl's reviews and he does not compare them to any other machines execpt yours.
So where is this review by someone who prefered your machine over the Meitner?.....of course, Meitner has upgraded their machines recently and many also prefer the Playback Design and other machines.
I totally respect your work and I am sure your machines sound outrageous. However, when someone says that they are as good as something they never heard or compared then the flag goes up. No doubt, after several reviews by people who actually compare your modded 5400 to other stock and modified machines (and not just other units by yourself) we will all get an actual picture of where it stands. I have been recommending your mods to Sony owners for years as I know by what you are doing that it must be spectacular.
...as how else can I push myself to do even better?
But here in Switzerland we are not exactly at the technical crossroads of hi-end heaven, and I get very few chances to test against other really good machines.
But our Upgraded players are in a completely different price category to them anyway, so it could even be two different markets. But I am very happy with the way this 5400 has turned out!
Regards, Allen (Vacuum State)
" But here in Switzerland we are not exactly at the technical crossroads of hi-end heaven, and I get very few chances to test against other really good machines."
Nagra makes a good machine and just accross the border in Autria Ayon.
I have heard the Ayon machines and I am impressed.
All I can say is that even in it standard form the 5400 compare's with them favorably.
> I am sure it is great but you say it competes with other heavy hitters.....yet
Try the link below, this is a Terra Firma Lite upgraded Rega Saturn (the Lite plus by-passing the analogue stages and some of our power supply tricks, 1V RMS outs).
Note:
"Yet I can unequivocally say that regardless of price, IMHO, my Saturn now sounds more pleasing and connects me more to the recorded artists than any of the other players which I have recently auditioned, amongst which include the Audio Aero Prestige, Nagra CDP, Ayre CX5e and EMM CDSA."
See complete article: www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/14/142994.html
Once these reviews come out in greater numbers, an overall idea of what to expect from Terra Firma upgrades should become apparent. There is a definite repeated pattern, like "more analog" and "more relaxed" as well as the usual comments about PRAT, instrumental separation, more defined acoustic space, better image stability and finally just how much more the soul of the music comes through. It also sounds less electronic and less digital, more detailed and yet less hyped up detailed, IYKWIM.
Best of all, this is quoting guys well known to be in the vinyl camp. "I found myself talking to a friend, saying things and then feeling I should have cut my tongue out" by Walter B-H who custom makes his own stupendous turntables (Allen also knows him). He had just said "Unless you can afford 100K on a vinyl system it is hard to be bothered when digital can sound this good." Ouch!
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