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Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto

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They are so many good versions of this work and at the moment I do not have one. 3 of them are on SACD's, Fisher/Bell/Heifetz or on RBCD Milstein
or even Leila Josefowicz.
Which one should I go for???? I like it dramatic!!!!

Follow Ups:

Thanks to all. - jazz1 22:50:29 07/02/09 (2)
Ii looks like I should get 1/2 doz versions, but I looked at what I could get as reasonable prices and the Heifetz is cheap if one buy the RBCD version from an Amazon seller, and I maybe treat myself to the Gluzman SACD from MDT tehy are selling BIS at a reasonable price including postage. I always been a BIS fan.
Thanks again.
- The Heifetz SACD is only 9.98 @ amazon - jalyra 10:23:04 07/03/09 (1)
  Although the Living Stereo RBCDs are pretty good sound wise, the SACDs are even better. In some of the recordings you get the Original 3 channels used when they recorded these pieces. And at that price, the SACD is a must!!!
  - RE: The Heifetz SACD is only 9.98 @ amazon - jazz1 22:45:58 07/03/09 (0)
    I actually did buy the Heifetz and Gluzman on SACD.
    If I can get the same performance on SACD I will buy it.
    My 5400 is actually arriving this weekend.
Heifetz - RCA Living Stereo SACD - DkB 14:50:09 07/02/09 (0)
Very good recording, too.
RE: Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto - steve.ott@kctcs.edu 10:35:00 07/02/09 (3)
If you want SACD, consider this one:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11507

I also have the Julia Fischer, and I think the one above is much more exciting (orchestra as well as soloist), and I think the sound is at least as good. Terrific Glazunov, too!

Steve O.
- RE: Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto - stvnharr 06:15:36 07/03/09 (0)
  Yes, the Gluzman recording is excellent.
- Yeah, wonder why no one has mentioned this BIS one (nt) - QuadESL63 13:24:10 07/02/09 (1)
  .
  - Because they haven't heard it? (I haven't, anyway) [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 20:38:51 07/02/09 (0)
never mind SACD - look for Kogan, Oistrakh, or Rabin (nt) - Kas 10:06:12 07/02/09 (2)
nt
- Hey - if we aren't restricted to SACD. . . - Chris from Lafayette 12:01:32 07/02/09 (1)
  . . . that opens things up for more babe violinists too (besides J-Fi)!
  - JJ plays the Tchaikovsky Concerto (Open in New Window)
  - As well as. . . - Chris from Lafayette 15:04:36 07/02/09 (0)
RE: Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto - grichens 08:00:52 07/02/09 (7)
Heifetz's 1950s version, remastered a few years ago by RCA for SACD is my favorite.

Heifetz was a student of Leopold Auer's, to whom Tchaikovsky dedicated the concerto over 130 years ago. Auer's threw his own spin on the piece which Heifetz followed.

Chicago symphony orchestra, conducted by Reiner. Underpriced. Excellent production values. Much more listenable than Fisher's take.

It's all good.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_Auer (Open in New Window)
- Yes, but if he chooses Heifetz. . . - Chris from Lafayette 08:56:47 07/02/09 (6)
  . . . he's going to get the Auer cuts - not to mention a bloated image of the soloist! While this type of balance may add a superficial excitement to the Heifetz performance, it is not realistic. The funny thing is, Heifetz probably did not need this type of overbalancing of his part, but apparently he ego would not allow anything more realistic.
  
  My piano teacher, who was a friend of and collaborator with cellist Gabor Rejto, passed on one of Rejto's stories about those Heifetz chamber music recordings he made for RCA (Schubert Quintet, etc.) which Rejto participated in. These were preceded by all-day rehearsals at Heifetz's house. Heifetz told all his colleagues to bring their own lunches. So during the rehearsal day, lunch time arrives and the musicians take out their sack lunches - except for Heifetz. He has his maid come in to bring him a hot lunch!
  
  Don't get me wrong, I still have Heifetz's recording - but I just don't think it's necessarily the last word in recordings of this concerto. As I mentioned in another post, the more recordings I have (or have heard) of a particular work, the less I think that there can be a single top performance.
  - RE: Yes, but if he chooses Heifetz. . . - docw 11:14:58 07/02/09 (0)
    I have the Brahms/Tchaik vc's rbcd in my car player.
    
    Last night, listened to 1st and 2nd mvmt of the Brahms during commute--amazingly good, fast passages (maybe too fast) but wonderful nevertheless. I didn't think the violin was as huge sounding as I remembered here.
    
    However, I do remember all the versions (cd and LP) of the Tchaikovsky are the same with a huge huge violin and wow loud fortes from Chicago after the inital intro at the first movement. Shockingly loud. But exciting.
    
    I taped the 80th BD celebration program for Heifetz from NPR, back in the 80's. Fun to listen to that. Full of those stories. I think they played an old master of the Brahms VC after the official show part.
  - RE: Yes, but if he chooses Heifetz. . . - grichens 09:44:51 07/02/09 (4)
    "He has his maid come in to bring him a hot lunch!"
    
    Fabulous! Come to think of it, I don't believe I have any of Heifetz's chamber works - and his other concerto recordings don't stick in my mind the way the Tchaikovsky piece has (possibly credit Reiner and the CSO for some of that).
    
    "As I mentioned in another post, the more recordings I have (or have heard) of a particular work, the less I think that there can be a single top performance."
    
    Absolutely. Also, listen-ability and historical accuracy are not necessarily the same. While the Heifetz recording is my favorite version (at least to my wooden ears), it's only fair to warn about Auer's "interpretation".
    Cheers.
    - RE: Yes, but if he chooses Heifetz. . . - vahe@flash.net 09:47:42 07/04/09 (3)
      I have nearly all Heifetz recordings on vinyl starting with mono era all the way to the later period when he concentrated more on chamber works performing with Piatigorsky and several other big name soloists.
      
      The single major issue with most Heifetz recordings are the poor audio, the Chicago and Boston recordings are the exceptions. The later chamber recordings suffer from some of the driest and lifeless sound on record, those of you who are old enough and remember RCA’s famous Studio 8-H sound will know what I am talking about. (Studio 8-H was the studio where Arturo Toscanini produced his radio broadcast performances with NBC orchestra, those still stand as the worst recordings made by anyone, simply put “telephone booth” ambiance).
      
      Heifetz never fared well with record reviewers, past and present, some of it is due to his complete lack of any emotional display during his public performances, public loves showmanship on the stage and having a few orgasms on the stage always guarantees standing ovations
      .
      Some have called him violinists violinist, I recall reading an article in “Musical America” journal back in sixties on David Oistrakh’s first trip to USA, one of the first items on his agenda was to order all Heifetz recordings.
      
      Whether you like Heifetz, Oistakh, Stern, Menuhin or any of the old timers from the past generation, one disturbing thing about all current star violinists active today is how similar they all sound, I can identify Heifetz or any of the big name violinists from the first note, not so with current artists, they all sound the same to me.
      
      And finally, being a Heifetz fan, my all time favorite performance is Max Bruch Scottish Fantasy, to me his tone and technique is made for this work and no other performance comes close.
      
      Vahe
      - "violinists active today. . . how similar they all sound" - Chris from Lafayette 21:27:01 07/05/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Yes, but if he chooses Heifetz. . . posted by vahe@flash.net on July 04, 2009 at 09:47:42
        
        I think part of the issue is that engineering was more differentiated in the old days, and that alone influenced the "sound" we all heard of the particular artists. In general, I agree there's more uniformity today - but I do think you could still differentiate today's artists very reliably if you lived with their performances as long as you've lived with the performances of Heifetz, Oistrakh, Stern, Menuhin, et al.
        
        Interestingly, I was just listening to one of Menuhin's recordings of the Kreutzer Sonata yesterday (the Japanese Victor performance from the early 50's on Biddulph - generally held to be superior to his subsequent performances he recorded later in life) - it can't hold a candle to the Repin performances I've heard recently.
        
        I agree with you about the Scottish Fantasy - that was one of Heifetz's best recordings, and one where the balance was not so absurdly tipped in his favor.
        
        RE: "violinists active today. . . how similar they all sound" - vahe 09:13:21 07/06/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "violinists active today. . . how similar they all sound" posted by Chris from Lafayette on July 05, 2009 at 21:27:01
        
        "Interestingly, I was just listening to one of Menuhin's recordings of the Kreutzer Sonata yesterday (the Japanese Victor performance from the early 50's on Biddulph - generally held to be superior to his subsequent performances he recorded later in life) - it can't hold a candle to the Repin performances I've heard recently."
        
        Yehudi Menuhin started as a super virtuoso in his early years, later in life for whatever reason he almost completely lost his technique, his later recordings demonstrates his struggles with the bow, totally unable to produce an even tone, but he kept on trucking well into the old age producing some performances that technically would be considered unacceptable by anyone else.
        
        Vahe
        
        Yes - that was my point (I think) - Chris from Lafayette 14:31:46 07/06/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "violinists active today. . . how similar they all sound" posted by vahe on July 06, 2009 at 09:13:21
        
        . . . the point being that the Biddulph recording is probably the best of any of Menuhin's recordings of the Kreutzer (recorded before he started deteriorating), and yet even this one is inferior (IMHO) to the Repin recording (and probably to a few others from the violinists of today). And to take the point a bit further, suppose I grant that violinists of today lack the easily identified individuality of sound characteristic of yesteryears' violinists, that's still only one aspect of a total performance (as the superiority of the Repin/Argerich or Repin/Lugansky performances of the Kreutzer Sonata make clear).
RE: Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto - jbcortes 05:47:17 07/02/09 (0)
Milstein/Steiner sounds beautiful, at least on vinyl, but it's definitely a bit dated and hardly dramatic. If you like dramatic, you can't go wrong with Repin/Gergiev. It's fantastic but it sounds like s***t, or at least it does to me. And it's not SACD. But I wouldn't let the format dictate my choice for such a piece.

Good luck!
JB

Edits: 07/02/09 07/02/09 07/02/09 07/02/09 07/02/09 07/02/09
RE: Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto - Mali 20:35:55 07/01/09 (0)
I have Sarah Chang, and Leila Josefowicz, a few others I can't reacall. Though I haven;t iistened to it in quite a while, the Josefowicz was a very bright sounding recording, annoyingly so. One of the worst sounding Phillips recordings I'd heard. I have an entirely new rig since I listened to it last, so no telling if it would still be too bright.
There's at least one other on SACD... - Russell 15:24:21 07/01/09 (3)
...though it might be hard to find now: Mutter/Previn on DG. It's a much more 'personal' performance than Heifetz's (the only other SACD I have of this work). I like it a lot.

Russell
- Oh, no. Not that one! - Kal Rubinson 15:53:15 07/01/09 (2)
  Listened to it last night. My wife and I found it annoyingly soggy and perverse. Made a note to avoid it!
  
  Kal
  - "soggy and perverse".........after she departed with Von Karajan, imo (nt). - pann 08:34:07 07/02/09 (0)
    nt
    Happy listening.
  - Agreed that it's very different than the norm; soggy, perhaps, but perverse? :-) (nt) - Russell 19:50:28 07/01/09 (0)
    nt
Drama aside, do you want it with or without the cuts? [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 13:05:02 07/01/09 (4)
- RE: Drama aside, do you want it with or without the cuts? [nt] - Brian Cheney 17:59:10 07/02/09 (3)
  What are the Auer "cuts" and "alterations" to the Tchai VC anyway? I've heard about them, but not being a string player, don't know what they are compared to the autograph score. Tchai admired Auer's playing greatly and dedicated the concerto to him. Auer found the original too awkward to play.
  
  Auer's credentials are the best of any performing musician of his era. His list of pupils is stellar. He lived to age 85, taught 49 years in St Petersburg,and later at Juilliard and Curtis. The man invented modern violin playing, at least in the Russian/Hungarian style.
  - The Auer cuts - here they are - Chris from Lafayette 20:34:39 07/02/09 (2)
    Hi, Brian
    
    I have an edition of the violin/piano score edited by Max Rostal (Edition Schott), who, in his preface, notes, "Very rarely has a work undergone so many alterations, variations, distortions and so-called 'improvements' as the violin concerto by Tchaikovsky. . . The present edition is based on the Russian Urtext and even the piano reduction, which the composer did himself (including fingerings and metronome markings) has been preserved." However, Rostal's edition does show where the Auer cuts are, heard (or, rather, not heard!) in the third movement as follows:
    
    bars 073-080
    bars 263-270
    bars 295-298
    bars 306-309
    bars 423-430
    bars 480-487
    bars 580-583
    
    Less than fifty measures in all, but they completely change the structure of the melodies. (I once played it with a violinist who employed slightly different cuts than the ones listed above. Other violinists take some, but not all, of these cuts.) My theory is that Auer, who was so heavily influenced by Joachim and Germanic musical theory, also grew to share in the type of Germanic musical conceit and quasi-racist aesthetics of the time (notwithstanding the fact that Auer himself was Jewish), which found expression in Hanslick's infamous review of the Tchaikovsky Concerto ("music that stinks to the ear"), or even in Brahms's comments about the Dvorak Te Deum (as wonderful a friend as Brahms was to Dvorak in other ways) - I think this attitude was always simmering below the surface.
    
    I can just imagine Auer, with his Germanic influences (and remember, even among Germans, Joachim was particularly conservative), pedantically pruning Tchaikovsky's measures away, saying to himself, "Ach! So much repetition!"
    
    Of course, I grew up hearing these cuts in the third movement (from the Heifetz recording, and, as well as I remember, from the Rabin recording). When I first heard an uncut performance on the radio (I think it was Grumiaux), I thought to myself, "What the heck is this guy playing???". Nowadays, with the ascendency of respect for Urtext and musicological scholarship, I seem to hear most violinists playing the concerto without the cuts. For instance, J-Fi plays it uncut. (I'm tempted to post a picture here, but I'll save it for the future. :-) )
    - RE: The Auer cuts - here they are - Brian Cheney 09:22:15 07/03/09 (1)
      I understand Milstein played the Tchai VC uncut, and he was Auer's most famous pupil after Heifetz!
      
      That's a lot of cuts. What about the "alterations". Fingerings, simplifications,outright improvements??
      - The other Auer alterations - here they aren't - Chris from Lafayette 21:01:09 07/05/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The Auer cuts - here they are posted by Brian Cheney on July 03, 2009 at 09:22:15
        
        Brian - I'm not as attuned these other alterations as I am to the cuts. I imagine these would mainly have to do with fingerings and bowings, but I can't say for sure.

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