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210.193.171.2
In Reply to: RE: Ray Charles + Basie Orchestra : y'all need to hear this posted by Joel_Waterman on October 07, 2007 at 21:21:01
Great music, maximum points for effort but this mix has been run through the mill with digital filters to the max and digital mixers all adding to the loss of realism in sound and this lost realism is unfortunate.
Sounds dead, no genuine transiants of instruments just loud or quite, even the instrument do not SOUND REAL OR as if they are in your listening space, no real detail etc...the life has been sucked out of it. Allmost the same argument we had re result of vinyl against bad cd against SACD
This has not been produced as a high-end product but one for the general population with crap equipment to listen on. Very disapointing and not true to Telarc's old philosophy and quality of sound.
Again a great idea, very well executed re time put in and artist co-operation but not real, should have been engineered by audiophiles with audiophile quality not mass market in mind which is sadly a waste.
I would love to hear the original tape....that probably would sound real all be it lost quality. Most of the old tapes were fantastic recordings....i.e Barry Belafonte, the weavers [carnegie hall] etc etc
Did you have/take an opportunity to compare "Ray Sings Basie Swings" to conventionally recorded Ray Charles music, especially music originally released on Lp, but also on CD or SACD? That's what I have been doing as part of my listening process.Likewise, I have found that the "Count Basie is Back" on the 88 label is a nice gauge for the Basie orchestra to help see how well (or poorly) this marriage really is.
It's too bad that there was no way to disguise the advertisement that shouts "Ray Sings Basie Swings" was done through substantial digital manipulation because there are steep biases and expectations to neutralize from the outset. I know in the near future when I share this recording with friends who are life long Ray Charles lovers (almost none who are audiophiles) I will down play the digital input stuff and allow them to just to listen and see what they say.
Please understand that I am not, in anyway disparaging your opinion, because I, myself, could/do have bias because I want so much for this release to be successful.
In fact, the more I think about it, when I do play "Ray Sings Basie Swings" for friends I will do so without spot light and I will play it simply among other recordings that I have such as old Lps (my see comments below), "Ray Charles at the Olympia" and even "Genius Loves Company", that I really don't like at all. In addition, to my opinion (which I believe in this case is well grounded because of my life long exposure to Ray) I will see what dye-in-the-wool Ray Charles connoisseurs have to say.
Robert C. Lang
Just heard the 2 channels version and I have to admit that I don't find it that good, I have many big band recordings that sound just so much more realistic, especially when it comes to tonal quality.
Now why should the 2 channels be so inferior to the surround version?
Questions, questions, questions.
jazz1
The stereo mix was ALL pcm performed within ProTools.
The surround mix started with the pcm source multi-track through all-analog outboard and analog board to DSD.
The effect you heard on the brass in the stereo mix is now quite minimal in the surround mix.
What system do you have?
I am lucky to have
Martin Logan Statements and CLS's
Kondo 211 monoblocks
Audio research amps and pre's
Ken Ishiwata built sacd/cd player also Audio research
Oracle turntables/ Graham arms
Benz / Lyra carts
etc
I also thought the same with the previous Charles rebuild..duets, not over digital but lacking life and ambiance between singers except on one track. As if he was just doing it and not enjoying himself, probably not the sound or case in the studio or on the master mix but the cd is dead, vinyl is not much if any better.
You may want to include the description of your system in Inmate Systems.
Robert C. Lang
Thank you,
...and it's painful to listen to. Way overdigitised like you found with the SA-CD, bass sounds like it's articifially boosted and so out of whack sonically with the rest that it's almost like it was pasted in afterwards by someone who never listened to the entire thing. The voice was flat. The brass sounded metallic.The SA-CD did not display these traits, though as I said the treble has bite. I hope to listen to the vinyl some time soon. Maybe it has more of the 3D imaging you were hoping for.
Wonderful system you have btw.
Take care,
Jw
HowdyThe stereo is but a pale shadow of the surround version.
-Ted
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