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In Reply to: RE: Ray Charles + Basie Orchestra : y'all need to hear this posted by Joel_Waterman on October 07, 2007 at 21:21:01
The stereo mix was ALL pcm performed within ProTools.
The surround mix started with the pcm source multi-track through all-analog outboard and analog board to DSD.
The effect you heard on the brass in the stereo mix is now quite minimal in the surround mix.
Best Regards,Michael Bishop
Recording Engineer
I have only listened to the disc once+ but I smell Grammy Award nomination or win written all over this recording, especially for Production and Engineering and may be other categories. If it is so honored this time the Concord/Telarc group will be justly deserving unlike when a few years ago the Concord “Ray Charles: Genius Loves Company”, I felt, riding a tidal wave of sympathy for Ray Charles garnered a fist full of Grammy Awards at the expense of a most deserving Usher. After only one listen I can say, safely this new release is far more “real” to me than “Genius Loves Company”. Yes, I am wary because this collaboration is almost too good to be true. But on first listen I must say I am profoundly impressed.I found Ray Charles’ voice to be most real, unexpectedly so. And while I had no intention of doing so when I first sat down to listen at the completion I was compelled to dig through my vinyl collection and retrieved a few Ray Charles Lps and 45s. I found four Lps and three 45s. (I undoubtedly have at least twice that many in my collection) And I must admit I spent as much or more time listening to these old recordings than I did the SACD. And to be sure those Lps sound as good as I have ever heard them. And most sound damn good! But one thing became all so clear and that is in no way did those Lps capture the fullness, richness, and passion (although see below) of Ray Charles that seemingly approached what I heard in “Ray Sings Basie Swings”. Heard live Charles’ voice was literally soul piercing for lack of a better description. I believe the SACD approached that level for me (although not with the “soul” or energy of some of the old recordings which has more has to do with the stage of Ray’s career at the time and not recording “quality”)
Now some will say that I need to spend more bucks on my vinyl rig or spring for some 200-gram audiophile pressings of my Ray Charles vinyl collection or both. Or I should get a life. Well, I have no intentions of changing any of the above especially if “Ray Sings Basie Swings” holds up to my scrutiny, as I fully believe it will.
While going in I had reservations on whether Ray Charles’ voice would be reproduced in a way that was truly authentic, I had far less reservations on how the Count Basie Orchestra would sound. I only have one recording of the current band; the SACD on the 88 label and it has become a demonstration disc, of sorts, for big band genre. And here, too, in “Ray Sings Basie Swings” the orchestra does not disappoint. I was specifically listening for the quality of the Butch Miles on drums and while the spotlight was never shone on Miles as it was in the cut “Whirly-Bird” on the “Basie is Back” SACD the sound quality, while not quite “there”, was close indeed. I do agree with Joel regarding the “bite” of the brass, but I have not determined that yet to be a positive or a negative.
Of course, the ultimate measure of the success of this SACD for me is whether a true and flawless synergy results from such substantial digital manipulation. It’s going to take more than a single listen for me to come to a final conclusion, especially since I was probably listening more for “this and that” and not the totality of the music given the uniqueness/novelty of this project (not to mention the hype).
But as much as I grew up in and around Ray Charles’ music I consider myself an awkward neophyte when it comes judging the “authenticity” this release. Can this release pass as the real deal? A litmus test for me with regard to this question is my Uncle Willie who took me to my first Ray Charles concert and is a genuine Ray Charles hound and contemporary. If *he* says this music sounds real then in my book it is. If it sounds bionic it will not get pass Uncle Willie.
One oddity about this recording is the unusual disparity of sound quality between the two-channel and the multi-channel. Others have also mentioned this and perhaps your explanation is sufficient, although it "seems" to be more than just a "pcm" thing. My experience with Telarc releases has usually been while the two-channel recording is very good to excellent, the multi-channel was also excellent but even more so! With this release the two-channel sound quality seems good but clearly not up to the level of the multi-channel. But the two-channel does have its moments of excellence. In one track (I don’t remember which one) I was almost fooled into thinking that distinct music information was coming from the sides even though I knew I was listening to the two-channel recording.
I do hope this release is a resounding success, both artistically and financially. For one thing I already want more. In listening to my old Lps a common thread I noticed was Ray Charles’ voice was consistently strong and recorded very well. But the background musicians, while clearly talented were not so well recorded and most often sounded thin or “wiry”. The Count Basie Orchestra in those instances may be a natural. As I was listening to “I Don’t Need No Doctor” from one of the albums I could not help but imagine Count Basie kickin” in accompaniment. I would love to hear and see a re-introduction to the public some of the pre crossover music of Ray Charles when he was, for many, his most penetrating, edgy, and creatively unfettered, without regard to a wider audience. And while I completely agree with the liner notes that in the 70s Charles was at his “interpretive” best, the best of “Ray Charles” “own” music was behind him. In fact, for many by the times the 70s rolled around, Ray Charles while fanatically revered, and still a “hot ticket” (e.g. Stevie Wonder today) was already in the “hall of fame”, was honored legacy, but with his most exciting music behind him. In addition, to some more of these songs from the 50s and 60s I would include Charles’ “America the Beautiful”, which for me, he has sole “ownership”. In fact, I would title such a release “America the Beautiful”
Robert C. Lang
I agree in many parts with your comments, mine is not to argue but discuss [not sugesting you are just commenting upon mine]
comments re CD and SACD stereo only.
Agree re Grammy.
Firstly let me say I agree with your comment...I did expect a lot as I love Charles's stuff, thus probably an excentuated disapointment.
Rays voice does sound good in many places but lacks passion, for a better word. I am sure in real life this would have come accross but in this recording.....?I feel this is the final print effect and not the original recording. I must say it is far better than the duets.
Again a great comment from you. Thanks.
15k is a problem but a bigger problem is the center channel, an aesthetic nightmare, unless I buy another house with a separate music room?? Then we are not talking 15K anylonger.
Life is difficult!
Howdy
A while back I posted about going to a phantom center channel by having my preamp modified. It works great for me and with more experience I'd still do it again, but I understand it's not the best solution for everyone.
-Ted
nt
Best Regards,Michael Bishop
Recording Engineer
Just kidding, of course.
In any event, just (minutes ago) I received a package from Telarc that most certainly contains my copy of "Ray Sings Basie Swings". In just a minute I will tear into the package with heightened anticipation.
Robert C. Lang
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