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Marantz SA11 Filter Settings

64.91.8.209

hey folks,

for those of you who own this wonderful machine...what filter settings do you prefer? i`ve read the manual and understand it somewhat and checked the archives but still lost,especially with some of the terms in the manual. i`ve got lots of sacd`s as well as redbook cd`s and listen to a wide variety of music.

happy listening

dave

Follow Ups:

The scoop on SA-11 filters ("Red Book" CD)... - FidPup 09:40:59 07/19/07 (4)
Hi, All,
Here is some info on the three "CD" filter settings available on the SA-11:
The frequency response graphs here are from a very extensive (and technical) test of the SA-11 in the July, 2006 issue of Hi-Fi News and AV Tech Magazine.
The testing was done by Miller Audio Research; the complete test results, with measurements of filters 1-3 for both CD and SACD are available here:
http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/

(You will have to "register" on the site in order to access the results. It's free, and I haven't gotten any "spam" in the 18 mos. I've been registered).
Here is a comparison of the three filter settings for "Red Book" CD:

(Note the different dB scales for the three graphs.)
Filter 1 has a subtle "softening" effect, with the frequency response being down -.5dB at 14.5kHz and only -1.33dB at 20kHz.
(This filter will take just a bit of the "edge" off bright recordings.)
Filter 2 has a definite HF roll off. FR is down -3dB by 14.5kHz, and is down a whole 5dB at 20k!
Filter 3 has the least effect on frequency response, being down only about .33dB at 20k.
I took some "low tech" oscilloscope photos of the appearance of a 1kHz square wave for each of the three filter settings.
Filter 3 looks just like the square waves produced by my old Magnavox CDB-560, which had a 4x oversampling filter and a "traditional" 16-bit ladder-type DAC. The square wave has the usual symmetrical "Batman" appearance!
The other three photos show the effects of the three filter settings on a constant 20kHz sine wave (actually 19,997Hz, from the CBS CD-1 Test Disc).
Filters 1 and 2 definitely have some kind of modulation effect on the sine wave. This "wavy" effect can be seen on a sine wave sweep as well, and begins to appear at about 10kHz.
So... Filter 3 appears to "do" the least to the music, with almost no effect on frequency response and the least effect on high frequency waveforms.
I do most of my listening using filter 1. It seems to have just a bit of a "sweetening" effect on the sound, and also makes my older, early-digital-era recordings easier to take. I find I can listen to some edgy recordings on the SA-11 that I never could on my previous players. Over-bright recordings don't have me reaching for the "off" button as often either!

I'm sorry I'm not able to find out more about the SACD filter settings. I don't have access to a test SACD!
I do all my listening to SACDs using filter 1. I haven't been able to hear any difference at all between the three filters on SACD.
Ken

Edits: 07/19/07 07/19/07 07/19/07 07/19/07
- RE: The scoop on SA-11 filters ("Red Book" CD)... - alex@shine7.com 09:19:43 09/18/07 (0)
  I have done similar measurement. The 3 filter's frequency responses are compared.
  - My Marantz SA-11S1 Page (Open in New Window)
- Thanks for posting the interesting photos - Charles Hansen 19:39:30 07/19/07 (1)
  The most interesting thing is that Filter One is a non-phase-linear filter. Look at the ringing -- there is more on the left side of the square waves than the right side of the square waves.
  
  This is more like the way an analog filter behaves. With an analog filter, *all* of the ringing will be on the left side (after the transition) and *none* will be on the right side (prior to the transition).
  
  It's interesting the the consensus of the posters seems to be that Filter One sounds the best, because for decades everybody has been hyping digital filters as "inherently superior" because they are phase-linear. But at least in this case, apparently not.
  - Preference for Setting #1 - tlyyra 03:40:40 07/20/07 (0)
    As Marantz puts it:
    With RBCDs:
    "This is an original filter using short FIR with asymmetric preecho and postecho in the impulse response. The analog characteristics exhibit slow roll-off. This creates a sound venue with richness, smoothness, and depth consistent with the image of analog record performances."
    With DSD/SACD:
    "This is a direct mode that does not perform any filtering on the DSD data. The original source data is reprocuded without any alteration."
    Since this is primarily bought as an SACD player, I wonder whether it might be the latter that actually matters: no mingling whatsover with the DSD data. The other settings apparently have an attenuating effect on some segments of the bandwidth.
    I've been doing my RBCD listening with setting #3, thinking that I hear a greater overall "cleanliness" or clarity across the spectrum with it. Not a huge difference though and this decision is not very studied.
    TL
    
    Edits: 07/20/07
- Marantz put best filters at filter one - jygesq 12:16:18 07/19/07 (0)
  almost a default. Best for both.
do you notice drive noise on Sacd M - jygesq 06:17:01 07/19/07 (4)
between tracks? If so how far away from Sa11 are you?
- RE: do you notice drive noise on Sacd M - FidPup 10:41:17 07/19/07 (1)
  I do hear a very faint but audible "whine", when playing SACDs only. (No noise with CDs.)
  
  The sound is loudest as the SACD first "spools up", and then is much quieter once the first track begins to play. The sound gradually diminishes (in volume and frequency) as the disc plays, and I can't hear the "whine" at all after the first three minutes or so.
  
  I seem to remember that the whine was more noticeable when my player was new (18 months ago). It has either gotten progressively less audible over the past year, or I've just become accustomed to it! Anyway, I don't hear the sound much unless I have my ears within 2 feet of the player.
  
  The "whine" is not objectionable, and is easily masked by low-level music.
  
  My player sits in an open Target audio rack, and is located about 6 feet from my listening position, about ear-height and to the left side (about half the distance to the speakers).
  
  When my SA-11 was new I did find the noise fairly bothersome, mainly because I expected total silence at the price I paid for it! Once I found that the sound was not noticeable with music playing, though, I more or less forgot about it.
  
  Also, all things are relative; the noise from the SA-11 was nothing compared to the cyclic rustling and swishing sounds made by my old Magnavox CDB-560!
  
  Ken
  - RE: do you notice drive noise on Sacd M - f1 fan 11:19:29 07/19/07 (0)
    my thoughts and ears mirror yours but my old Marantaz SA 14 did not make the ``whine`` noise when it first spooled up. None the less it does go away after a few minutes.
- Drive noise on SA-11S1 - mcondo 08:18:20 07/19/07 (0)
  Many have posted about the drive noise on SACD's - I hear it also, but it is so faint I'm starting to believe my hearing has gone bad or the problem is being over stated here. Maybe I'll use my RS meter at a foot and see what it reads, if anything.
- RE: do you notice drive noise on Sacd M - f1 fan 07:20:02 07/19/07 (0)
  yes and no. i do hear drive noise from the start up of sacd but none between the tracks. i sit about 8 - 10 ft from the system. the only drive noise is when standing directly in front of the system. that being said i`ve had the player for about a year and a half and have had to send the player back to Servive Wide Technologies for optical replacement 2 times. the last time ( last month to the exact date from last year ) they replaced the optical and servo board. they also did some firmware upgrades. other than this the player is wonderful.
I use filter 1 for both Cd & Sacd - jygesq 06:14:59 07/19/07 (5)
Its all personal preference.
- I use filter 1 for both Cd & Sacd - f1 fan 07:27:07 07/19/07 (4)
  thats the setting i`m using now have tried filter 3 but something just did not sound right. filter 2 seemed (to me anyway) to be rolled off too much. from what the manual says do you agree that filter 1 is the ``truest to the original recording or performance`` or what we are supposed to hear??
  - for sacd. definetly 1 as nothing done to electronic - jygesq 08:08:13 07/19/07 (1)
    chain. As far as Cd I have only use filter one as it sounds great. My dealer
    who is Marantz Reference suggest filter 1 , he has extensive experience. I've used only 1 and have no reason to experiment.
    - RE: for sacd. definetly 1 as nothing done to electronic - f1 fan 11:15:24 07/19/07 (0)
      my dealer ( Nicholsons Hi Fi in Nashville, decided to close its doors after 60 years! ) was a Marantz Reference Dealer. They too preferred filter 1 compared to the others. Comparing these filters can sometimes be confusing to the ears.
  - the manual seems to indicate that - jygesq 07:59:31 07/19/07 (1)
    filter 1 for both is suggested.
    - RE: the manual seems to indicate that - f1 fan 21:13:22 07/19/07 (0)
      I gather from the info given so far filter 1 is the way to go. I`ve listened all day with 1 - 3 filters and to my ears and I agree, 1 sounds the best. Filter 3 does things I like and sounds good but 1 sounds ``more natural`` or ``real``. I do not care for filter 2.

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