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In Reply to: RE: Comments-Saint Saens Symphony No. 3 (Organ)-Orchestre Metropolitain du Grand Montreal (long) posted by Robert C. Lang on July 04, 2007 at 03:06:26
There was no low frequency EQ (or any EQ for that matter) employed on the Telarc Soundstream sessions, nor in subsequent years of Telarc classical sessions. In remastering the Soundstream sessions for SACD, certainly no EQ would have been used at that point either. The amount of low-end or "slam" was present at the original sessions. It was common practice at other classical labels in those days to tame down the natural dynamics and frequency response of an orchestra recording to accommodate the limits of analog tape and to fit the program on LP. Bob Woods and Jack Renner wanted to remove those artificially imposed limits on the music performances and recordings. The Soundstream digital system made it possible to do so. No artificial enhancement of the "slam" or low end response was needed and no extra microphones were placed near bass drum or timpani, etc.. Three mics across the front of the orchestra and that was it. One thing that I suspect did happen back then was that the musicians were enjoying the new-found "slam," too. We did have to restrain some overly-enthusiastic percussionists from over-doing it at times and still do ocassionally. The Telarc "slam" got a lot of attention for a very small independent label at a time that the music business (and Hi-Fi business) was languishing. The "slam" also enabled a lot of great music-making since. Those recordings hold up very well today as played on systems that have lots of dynamic power and depth. We've had lots of opportunities to revisit the original session masters and no one would think to change a thing on them.
Best Regards,Michael Bishop
Recording Engineer
1) For sake of clarity, I never suggested (or even thought) that there was Low end EQ.
2) I initially said in the lead post:
***even if the dynamics may be closer to “real” it is still a poor facsimile because it is out of proportion. (I have expressed on several occasions, and it is widely known, that Telarc’s bass was often far out of proportion to the rest of the orchestra on many of its recordings during this era).*****
That is, during the era (early digital) a lot of record labels were trying to “show off” the new technology with resounding blows of the percussion, much as many audiophiles turn up their new subwoofers……at first. And no one could show off better than Telarc. As you mentioned Telarc got a lot of attention for its bass prowess. The dynamics and loudness of the percussion and other bass instruments may have been recorded closer to real, but perhaps, at the expense of the rest of the orchestra, where less than the needed attention was given to detail of making it, too, as realistic as the percussion. Two of the biggest offenders I found were the Grieg “Peer Gynt Suite” disc and the Maazel/Cleveland Tchaikovsky No 4.
Note that I have, I bet, 95% of the Telarc classical discs recorded during this era. I enjoyed them immensely, and frequently used them for showing off my systems and for auditioning. I still enjoy them, especially as my systems were better able to cope. It’s just that as I started attending more live acoustic events that I learned that in the real world, while the bass drum can be indeed powerful (more powerful than any recording, Telarc or otherwise, I have heard) there is still a sense of proportion (well, most of the time) that was lacking in some of these early digital Telarc recordings.
3) The “problem” of out of proportion bass, rarely exists any more in Telarc recordings, in my opinion, at least no more than for other labels. (Sometimes it will be done on “purpose”, such as with the SACD 1812 Overture”, in which, cannon fire aside, the bass was, too me, out of proportion, but still enjoyable, nonetheless). And it (out of proportion bass) went away rather quickly.
Clearly the decision for a recording change, whether it was mic techniques, toning down testy percussionist, etc., came from the top. Also, Telarc (for the last quarter century) has provided more “balance” between bass and the rest of the orchestra. Perhaps, just as it has been long understood that the organ and orchestra can not be treated equally from a miking stand point then, too, perhaps Telarc has better implemented percussion/orchestra balance. In spite of these changes or perhaps because of them, Telarc, for me, is the standard bearer for authentic low end reproduction.
Robert C. Lang
"It was common practice at other classical labels in those days to tame down the natural dynamics and frequency response of an orchestra recording to accommodate the limits of analog tape and to fit the program on LP"
Do not really know or understand how difficult it is to capture these low frequency high dynamic signals on analog tape, but on the consumer end the Telarc LP's, when they first showed up, REALLY taxed cartridges to their absolute limit, in fact we tried many high end cartridges back in those early days of digitally mastered LP's and most produced considerable distortion, related to mistracking, with Telarc LP's.
Not a criticism of Telarc LP's, to me this clearly demonstrates the inherent limitations of analog playback source when dealing with non-compressed classical orchestral recordings.
Vahe
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