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Hi-Rez Highway

The original Soundstream recordings were made

172.190.140.118

In Reply to: RE: Comments-Saint Saens Symphony No. 3 (Organ)-Orchestre Metropolitain du Grand Montreal (long) posted by Robert C. Lang on July 04, 2007 at 03:06:26

with 3 microphones suspended from the ceiling and quite a ways back.

If memory serves me well Jack Renner (Telarc engineer) explained in an interview to TAS this accomplished three things it gave a smoother sound especially to strings, increased ambiance and allows bass frequencies (which are very long) to be both deep and have huge impact without the use of any equalization! There was over a page of text explaining how closely mic’ed bass instruments diminished bass response, some of it of course over my head. But maybe someone who has or remembers the interview could fill in the details.

But if the bass of these un-EQ'ed Telarc soundstream releases sounds out of proportion, does the bass on your system sound out of proportion with Reference Recordings LPs as well? Pomp and Pipes for one has even deeper and stronger bass than any of the Telarc Soundstreams except for the cannon shots on Telarcs 1812 Overture? If so could your speakers be too close to the rear walls? Most manufactures recommend 1 1/2 to 2 feet from the rear walls.

With the exception of a little subduing of the high end which may be caused by distance microphone technique coupled with 50kHz sampling my Telarc LPs and Soundstream SACDs have very realistic sonics with superb deep bass response. My 4-ohm Infinity Reference Kappa 7's have 12-inch woofers fed 325 watts by my Adcom GFA-555II Power Amp's so I can reproduce quite powerful bass! Which I really miss on recordings that are bass shy.

"Music is love"
Teresa

Follow Ups:

RE: The original Soundstream recordings were made - Robert C. Lang 23:24:50 07/04/07 (5)
******, does the bass on your system sound out of proportion with
Reference Recordings LPs as well? Pomp and Pipes for one has even
deeper
and stronger bass than any of the Telarc Soundstreams except for the
cannon
shots on Telarcs 1812 Overture? If so could your speakers be too close
to
the rear walls? Most manufactures recommend 1 1/2 to 2 feet from the
rear
walls.**********

I should give some clarifications that may address your questions.

The bass heavy issues I experienced on the Telarcs from this era were heard on *any* “full range” system I have auditioned over the years.

1) It is important to note that the problem only happen on Telarc recordings made between about 1979 (dawn of the digital recording age) and about 1983 (I going from memory).

2) Jdaniel can confirm but I think we played a selection or two from “Pomp and Pipes” when he was over. I don’t recall a problem with the bass. Remember “deep” is not the problem. “Proportion” and as Jdaniel pointed out, master tape “distortion”, in the case of Telarc’s “Organ Symphony” are the culprit.

3) It’s been nearly a quarter of a century since Telarc made a recording that I purchased that have this problem. The problem disappeared very quickly during the 80’s. After initially being applauded for their prodigious bass Telarc began getting criticism in the press for having too much of a good thing. For sure, I have not experienced this problem on any of the couple of dozen (at least) Telarc/HeadsUP SACDs that I currently own. The bass is both deeply extended *and* realistic, the consistently best in the business as far as I’m concerned. I have plenty of space in my listening room that is well suited for deep bass and the speakers are set up, to the inch, precisely as called for by the manufacturer. See Inmate Systems for a placement description

****My 4-ohm Infinity Reference Kappa 7's have 12-inch woofers
fed
325 watts by my Adcom GFA-555II Power Amp's so I can reproduce quite
powerful bass!**

4) The deep bass problem I am referring does not manifests itself completely until substantially below the 37 hz –3 (if memory serves me correctly) roll off of the Kappa 7s. In the case of the “Organ Symphony” the problem is more like at 22 Hz full output, certainly below 25 Hz.

Also, a friend of mine has some Kappa Reference speakers (8s I think) that are about 14 years old. His woofers need refoaming. Have you dealt with this issue? What do you recommend?

Robert C. Lang
- RE: The original Soundstream recordings were made - Teresa 01:25:08 07/05/07 (4)
  It is true the -3dB point on the Kappa 7's is 37Hz, they are supposed to have useful bass down to 25Hz according to a review at the time they came out. So I may not reproducing the problem areas of the early Telarc's since I’m sure there is nothing below 25Hz.
  
  From what I understand Telarc started moving the microphones closer in as D/A converters started to improve. Could it be the distant microphoning that produced too much level in the ultra-low frequencies?
  
  The foam on my woofers still looks and sounds new. My Kappa 7's are 15 years and 2 months old.
  
  One thing I love about sealed acoustic suspension enclosures is their woofers near total lack of distortion. Most speakers made nowadays are bass reflex and I can hear tons of distortion putting my ear right on either the woofer or reflex duct. However with my Infinity woofers there is no audible distortion with my ears right up against the woofer.
  
  Once I do hear distortion could it indicate that I need to replace the foam surrounds?
  
  I have listened to many, many speakers in the last 15 years and the only ones I like better than Infinity are the larger Magnaplaners.
  
  "Music is love"
  Teresa
  - RE: The original Soundstream recordings were made - Robert C. Lang 12:50:17 07/05/07 (1)
    I can't speak to whether distant microphoning produced too much level in the ultra-low frequencies?
    
    I have never owned a ported design so I can’t speak to the distortion levels but I understand that sealed systems do provide more abundant bass than a comparably rated ported system. That’s because a ported system’s bass falls off like a rock while a sealed system bass rolls off much more slowly. So, while a ported system rated to down –3db at, say, 40Hz truly has almost no meaningful bass below that point a sealed system bass response rated at 40 Hz –3db will roll off gently and produce a meaningful response for another 1/3 of an octave or so.
    
    Of course, that same ported speaker can be designed significantly smaller and more efficient because of the port, that some say can make audible noises in some speakers. This is probably the main reason why there has been a proliferation of ported designs and a commensurate decline in sealed designs.
    
    Regarding the foam surround, the low humidity in the Reno area may ensure a longer life for the surround. Don’t necessarily expect a gradual deterioration in the way the surround looks. One day things can look fine and the next day you see cracks and holes. There may be a deterioration in sound quality but it is unlikely that you will notice it because of the gradual nature of it. Once the surround is replaced you will quickly notice the improved bass definition
    
    Robert C. Lang
    - Thanks Robert (;-) NT - Teresa 18:56:59 07/05/07 (0)
      "Music is love"
      Teresa
  - you will see the foam breakdown on the surrounds - jygesq 07:36:09 07/05/07 (1)
    bits of foam will break off.There will be holes in the surrounds. My four woofers in my I981 Infinity Reference Standard II's all had to be replaced in 1997. I was told by refoamer, Simply speakers Clearwater Fl.new foam would last longer (BTW they did outstanding job as evidenced by solid bass sounds which my Marantz SA11 produces. For more om my wonderful infinitys:
    http://www.infinity-classicsy/models/Reference-series-1+b-2-10+A+B-1981-86/in
    dex-Reference.htm
    - woofers were refoamed not replaced - jygesq 07:46:39 07/05/07 (0)
      sorry for confusion

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