|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
76.103.172.233
Are there some.
I might have to ditch my magnepans and move to headphones. I love being able to close my eyes and feel like I am at a real performance or that musicians are in the room.
I am hoping that something like the stax or others would deliver that but headphones tend to leave me wanting more.
The only ones I have heard (not much just some senns and on AKG model) that have been OK were from Ultrasone or something like that.
Any thoughts on what can replace the maggies??
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Follow Ups:
I'm convinced there is no such thing -- you can't get a 3-D soundstage from headphones. However, you can get vivid detail and depth that is close from Sennheiser HD800s driven by a balanced headphone amp with completely separate electronics for each channel. Crossfeed can help with any listening fatigue you may get from headphones -- the headphones will disappear -- but crossfeed usually involves tweaking frequency responses and, furthermore, with a balanced amp, you probably won't need it.
I've got MG 3.6's (and Quad ESL-57's)
I've also got: Sennheiser HD-800, Audeze LCD-2, HiFiMan HE-6, Stax SR-007, Stax Lambda Pro Signature, a Beta 22 amp, Audio-GD NFB-10ES,Koss ESP-950, Stax tube & solid state amplifiers, along with a raft of other less interesting headphone gear.
And I have to say that NO headphones image like my MG 3.6's. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
It's a totally different way of experiencing sound, and the sound sources move with your head, so really there's no way to provide the same spatial experience as speakers.
As someone who is well familiar with the way MG 3.6's image, I would say that with headphones the whole term "image" is not appropriate. With headphones, it's not like being in front of a stage listening to the music, whether it be a symphony orchestra or a blues band. It's like being INSIDE THE MIX. Which is different from sitting in front of the performance, and also different from sitting on stage in the middle of the performance.
In some cases, such as binaural recordings, and some other recordings miked with Blumlein pairs or where a small ensemble is miked with just a few mics, you DO get an uncanny "hear through" experience. This experience is not common, as recordings miked / mixed this way are not common, unless you mostly listen to string quartets or acoustic jazz on audiophile labels. I find this "hear through" experience can be got from the HD800's, the LCD-2's, Koss ESP-950 and the Stax. Never heard it on the HE-6's, though it may be that I just never listened to the right recording on them.
As one planar owner to another, I would suggest you get a pair of Lambda Pro's (used) or Nova Lambda Pro's, and an SRM-T1 amp. I think they might satisfy as well as any headphone could, keeping in mind that NO headphone is going to give you the big stage that your Magnepans offered. Nonetheless, headphone listening offers it own qualities, and can be very enjoyable in it's own right.
Another headphone very worth considering is the Koss ESP-950, which has more bass "slam" than the Stax while retaining electrostatic detail. It has a somewhat forward midrange compared to the Stax, and so isn't quite as 'neutral' but it is a very good headphone, and comes with it's own rather decent amp / bias supply for around $500 used. With an adapter you can also use the Koss ESP-950 on Stax amps that offer the "Pro" (580 volt) bias. Using the Koss ESP-950 on a Stax amp gives you a little better more refinement and a little more bass, but unless I already had a Stax amp, I would just use the amp that comes with the Koss. I wouldn't run out and spend $500 on a Stax amp just to power the Koss, the small improvement made by a Stax amp over the stock Koss unit is just not worth another $500 on top of the $500 for the purchase of the Koss.
You should also try to listen to the Sennheiser HD-800 and the Audeze LCD-2's, maybe they will float your boat. But I would guess that, coming from Magneplanars, you might be best pleased by Stax or Koss.
You can buy new Stax, though the used ones are a very good value, and you can get more finesse for your money with good used gear. Check out Head-fi.org
Dawn,
You should try to audition the Audeze's LCD-2, especially if you like Maggies.
wow!!!!
The Stax Sigma and the AKG K1000 are the closest approach
I think the Ultrasones do a nice job of 'out of the head' imaging, but they can have a lighter/brighter tonal balance. it will be hard duplicating the maggie sound (simulating a line source with point sources......
i love my denon 7000s because they have what i call "speaker bass", which is important to me. 650s, 701s are very good for their prices, 800s are quite wonderful, but are extremely revealing, and need a fair amount of voltage swing to come alive.
you may want to try the Hifiman or Audeze, as they are similar tech to the Maggies
Hi Mark,
The Ultrasones are the best headphones I have heard in the imaging department, and on the shortlist.
Thanks.
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
That A8 unit looks like the ticket.
Though I dont get the multiple inputs or outputs...for ht I suppose.
Though the lack of balanced inputs is probably a deal breaker.
What a cool product, but I am a bit confused how it connects and the site didnt seem to answer that, but it could be there and I just missed it.
Thanks.
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
There are headphone amplifiers and processors that utilize crossfeed algorithms to try to duplicate the way one hears speakers (sound from the left speaker reaching the right ear delayed in time from the longer path from diffracting around the head; difference in pitch from diffraction and etc.). These things work to varying degrees in making the soundstage more like speakers. I, personally, don't like these circuits and I just accustom myself to the different experience from headphone listening (I do both speaker and headphone listening to almost equal degree at home).
Around a year or so ago, Stereophile had an article about a very complex headphone processor/amp that is suppose to exactly duplicate the sound of your own speakers in your own room (I cannot remember the product's name). A microphone is used to analyze the room sound and apply processing to the signal which is then played back on a Stax electrostatic phone. The system is quite expensive, but, you would get to preserve the sound of your Maggies (if that is what you want to do).
Wouldn't it be tempting to take the measurement of a million dollar system instead?
Here it is...
Edits: 10/04/11
Judging by the discussion on head-fi and the review on stereophile, this may be exactly what the OP is looking for. Fascinating product!
Read about some of the best imagers in the headphone market today. Three of them have planar magnetic drivers, two have electrostatic drivers, and one has dynamic drivers. Surprisngly, the best imaging of the bunch comes from the dynamic design...
Edits: 10/03/11
the Senns seemed to be the best imagers but Jon L now says they are the headphone in the head experience.
So maybe I am chasing after something that headphones just wont do?
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
... you might be way better off going with "earspeakers" instead of headphones. I love my AKG K1000 earspeakers but they are no longer being made. Stax sells a line of electrostatic earspeakers and Oskar Heil ERGO AMT ("air motion transformer") earspeakers are still being sold. And did you know that when using earspeakers, you can always run them with a subwoofer just as you might do if you were using minimonitor loudspeakers? You'll get much deeper, better, and more realistic "out of the head" bass that way.
Edits: 10/03/11
As they are hard to find and sometimes those that can be found need repair. The plus side is that you drive them with a power amp.
For moderately priced cans, the K701s don't do a bad job at all. The old Senn 650s also do pretty well if you like their romantic presentation. I have never tried closed cans, except for some inexpensive pro monitors I own.
"You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
I owned the HD600 and HD650 one after the other. I didn't like the sound of either one, but in any case, they definitely do NOT image like speakers. The soundstage is still between your ears and inside your head. That's it.
I now own AKG K702 (same as 701 except for different color and a detachable cable). I really like the headphones, but they definitely give you the same music-in-your-head experience as the Senns and any other headphones I've tried (which does not include the K1000s, Senn 800s, or any planar headphones). Binaural recordings DO give you that surrounding experience and wide soundstage using just about anything you can put in or over your ears, but there aren't many that have much musical value.
I also have the AKG K701s and they definitely do not sound like the typical "in your head" headphones. They sound closer to "ear speakers".
How in the world can the same set of headphones produce two completely opposite experiences?
then one will not get it from headphones, period. Senn HD800 will give you decent imaging localization and depth, better than HD6xxx or any AKG, but it still sounds like headphone imaging in the end. Ditto for various electrostats. AKG K1000 is kind of more like it, but not really in the end. If you rotate out the drivers to more closely resemble speakers, bass diminishes too much, affecting even midrange IME.
But I enjoy them all anyway because they have their headphone virtues, which speakers cannot achieve, either.
I think there are other things to focus on with headphones. It's easy to be overwhelmed by the "presence" of a headphone when you first hear one. Also, many headphone reviews tend to chop up headphone audio qualities into its different parts. (The same is true for speaker reviews). I look for a headphone that has a presentation that sounds like music, which is probably as subjective as it gets. I keep going back to my 701s without apology.
"You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: