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Suggestions for the best high end head phone set up for listening at home. Budget around $5,000 for phones and headphone amp. After attending the Axpona show in Chicago and listening to a around 30 set ups I am leaning toward the Audeze LCD3 with a Woo WA22 tube amp. I will run that through the tape out of my Spectral 20 Preamp so that I can listen to vinyl as well as feeding directly from my Sony ES5400 SACD player. My main objection is that the phones are heavy and do not have the deep bass I am used to (infinity RS1Bs) and also lacking some dynamics. Would have liked to have been able to audition some in the ear buds but not easy to do and have been told not as satisfactory as larger open type headphones. Listened to a Welle headphone amplifier that was $7,000 at the show but over my budget. Sounded great though. Is balanced worth the expense? My system is not balanced at this time so only the SACD would be fully balanced. The vinyl would come from the non balanced Spectral 20.
Follow Ups:
I'm currently using my D100 Mk2 DAC, Donald North Audio Sonett, and Audeze LCD-X.
Many headphone amps didn't really do it for me but Donald North's stuff sounded absolutely wonderful to me. Lots of clarity and none of the haze or distortion I heard with most solid state stuff, but accurate and neutral without the flavoring found in many tube amps.
Between the LCD-3 and LCD-X, I have chosen the X because it provides a better overall frequency response. But the 3 has better transient response, so it's a bit of a trade-off.
IMO, fully balanced is worth the expense in electronics for the sonic improvement, and balanced cables can be worth it for connecting your headphones to your amp because it reduces crosstalk and rejects interference.
I own the DNA Sonett also. I agree with your overall assessment of it's sound quality.
I'm curious, though. Does the Sonett provide you with enough gain when driving the "difficult" Audeze planars?
I don't blast my volume with listening to headphones, so it's good for me. I usually never turn it up above 4. In terms of ability to control the headphones, rather than reach suitable volumes, I haven't noticed any issues like I have with some other headphone/amp combinations.
However I've had people over who turn it all the way up to 10 and still want more...I sort of wonder if their hearing is super damaged.
I have the feeling that I might listen to music a bit louder than you do, too.My AKG K-701s usually sound best to me at six or seven on the volume knob, while my Sennheiser HD650s usually only need a four or a five. This works well with good quality, dynamically uncompressed recordings.
With poor quality, "loud", and dynamically compressed recordings the above settings get shoved down a notch or two. OTOH, my phono preamp does not provide as much gain as my digital sources do and so the volume level usually gets turned up a notch when I'm playing vinyl.
So, the ideal volume setting often depends on the state of the recording, at least for for me.
I have the original dual XLR balanced version of the Sonett.
Edits: 07/24/15 07/24/15
I have not heard these two matched up together but the Violectric head amp is one of the very best sounding amps made today...regardless of price! And they work really good with all types of headphones too.
I am STILL using the same pair of Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro (600 ohm), that I purchased back in 1999 for $129.
Built like a TANK!!
Great dynamics and bottom end....but....if you're looking for 100% accuracy, look elsewhere.
I'm using a home brew 12au7/FET hybrid headphone amplifier, to drive the 600 ohm Beyerdynamics.
LOL.....FUGLY as sin, but gets the job done!
Schematic is on the Diyaudio web site.
Steve
Like many things in audio, headphones are something of a personal preference.I personally have used the HD600 for more than a decade, and like them better than the HD800 and some other options which were supposed to be oh-so-much better than the HD600. You never know until you actually listen to them, if you will like them. Other people's opinions are worse than useless. Price, for anything over $250, does not necessarily mean anything. Any headphone of more than $250 or so (new market price, not retail list, dynamic headphones) will be pretty well made and represents a manufacturer's top effort without major compromise. I suggest starting with models like the HD600, Grado SR325i, Beyerdynamic DT-880, AKG 701 and other such top-quality models that are not so boutiquey. Listen to these for a year at least. If you find something better, great. I never did.
Even for planars and electrostats, excellent models abound for $400 or so (Stax 407 for example), and I would not assume that more expensive offerings from even the same manufacturers are necessarily better.
I find that poor electronics are far more apparent, and far more irritating with headphones than with speakers, where things like crossovers, cabinet and room resonance tend to obscure things.
I personally do not like electronic feedback in headphone amplifiers, whether tube or solid state. I've used tube amps with things like solid-state current sources, or solid-state amplifiers based on bipolar outputs, and find them quite poor. My no-feedback SE DHT headphone amps, and also my no-feedback solid-state efforts, are far superior.
I am now using something a little special: the Metrum Octave DAC, which uses an R2R configuration and has no output stage, combined with a 600 ohm autoformer from Dave Slagle. This drives my HD600 to satisfying levels on most recordings. I am listening literally to the current output of the R2R converter on the chip, with no intervening electronics.
This is hard to beat. I haven't beaten it with either tube or solid-state approaches. You can use it with headphones of any impedance, but the efficiency must be high, around 97db/mW or better. But, there are other options too, such as electrostats or vinyl. I think that there is quite a lot of improvement to be done with electrostatic amplifiers. Recent very ambitious attempts such as the Gilmore Blue Hawaii often have a lot of solid-state feedback, feedback with tubes (all Stax offerings), etc. Feedback can be important for speaker amplifiers due to difficult speaker loads and need for high power, which leads one to Class AB approaches and inherently nonlinear devices (power pentodes, Mosfets) that benefit from feedback, and also devices (transistors, opamps) with such high transconductance that they need to be restricted by feedback. However, headphone listening is typically a low-power, easy load (single driver, no crossover, high impedance, low current) so it should be possible to use no-feedback approaches without much compromise.
Edits: 07/16/15
All the Sennheiser headphones I've heard so far are good values but HD600/650 are the best values of the bunch, IMO. I'd recommend HD650 for brighter sounding systems and recordings and HD600 for warmer sounding ones.
Edits: 07/17/15
I listened to the LCD3, the Senn 800 and the Grado PS500 and 1000, and the Grado was the most comfortable and best sounding for me. I paired it with a Grado phono amp, and I got out with spending slightly under $1K. And I'm 100% satisfied. It made a difference to hear the others first, I'm much more comfortable in my purchase. And as I said, your ears are the most important part of any combo, so listening is critical.
fight the good fight
I definitely prefer Grado RS-1 over all other headphones I've tried for rock music and similar music genres, I will say that much...
and I need something that's going to be forgiving on all my godawful CDs of my favorite bands, and still sound great!
PS500 did the trick!
fight the good fight
PS500 has the flatter frequency response of the two, I believe. There's something about the "tactile" RS-1 frequency contour - it really helps re-create the rock music experience for me.
only the "best for you". The rig you mention should be quite nice.
Several people have mentioned the Senn 800s, and I concur with their
opinion. Though I use Senn 600s, I've heard the 800s on a couple of
occasions and absolutely love them.
As for amps, I'd stick with tubes. I don't think you can go wrong with
Woo or Decware.
Happy hunting and listening.
I have a different take. Stax has been mentioned a couple times and it is indeed the best in my opinion. I would go with a used pair of Stax SR-007 Mk I headphones, or Stax Lambda Nova Signature, also used, which are available on ebay, and a good stat headphone amp.
The Cavalli has been mentioned, but it has a number of technical deficiencies, which are well discussed if you do a Google search for "Liquid Lightning Head-Case". The InnerFidelity website also has reviews of all the top stat amps as well as many reviews of headphones and amps. Frankly, after reading that I wouldnt buy a Cavalli amp on a bet.
If you're willing to DIY in terms of the amp then a design by Kevin Gilmore is what I would recommend. The KGST is probably the best within your budget. I have an article on a modification of the Stax SRX DIY design which I hope will be out in AudioXpress in a few months which sounds very good also - not just my opinion but the opinion of someone who has built it and also some Gilmore amps - he feels it is comparable to any of his Gilmore amps. In terms of commercial amps the Blue Hawaii design by Gilmore is probably the best but above your budget. Note that Gilmore is the designer but he doesnt build amps for sale. If you go to the Head-Fi web site you'll find that they often will have one or another Gilmore amp for sale - mostly DIY but a good DIY amp is as good, or sometimes better, than many commercial amps.
I have a friend using the linked amp with lcd 3 and he swears its the best he has heard, I also own the Kenzie amp but use it with the HifiMan he 500, (WHEN $$$ ALLOWS I PLAN TO UPGRADE MY CANS TO Audeze) and it is the best amp I have heard as well. take a moment and look up the DARLING circuit and you will note it has a huge following
Justins twist on the circuit optimized it for use with about any headphone on the market, I have used mine with IEM, HE500's, sennheiser hd650, and a pair of fostex all with superb results and dead quiet backgrounds even with IEM
Cheers
Enjoying Music again with ampsandsound Kenzie Headphone amp, Mhdt Havana Dac, Hifi Man He500
http://ampsandsound.com/products/amps/se-84/
$5K should get you to audio headphone heaven. I have a 5400ES I play SACDs through with my headphone set up. I recently upgraded to the Bryston BHA-1 head amp. Have you tried it? It is balanced and sounds great with the 5400 using Shunyata Zitron Python XLRs. It is overlooked by the media it seems, but, has great reviews. I use either of 2 headphones these days - a modded Byerdynamic 770 (600 O.) or a stock Denon AH -D2000. The cables are all Shunyata, and this has made a big difference in increased resolution and smoothness. For long listening and sound quality I found over the ears phones work best for me.
robss
so I have been to the last 2 headphone conventions in Costa Mesa.
my take:
the LCD-3 in in a class of its own pretty much blowing away all other cans except the Stax.
for the money you are spending I would go Stax with a amp by Cavalli
That was the best sound of the show IMHO
For non electostatic - lcd-3 by a mile
for less money - my set up woo wa2 otl with beyer T1 600 ohms
A few more ramblingsthe Senn 800 were by far the most overrated cans - nothing that special
the HIFI man orthos were a great deal - but the 400's have sucked out mids I hated - real nice bass tho
the Koss Electros sounded fantastic for $$$ - construction was meh
lcd-2 sound very good but not comfortable / lcd-3 better in every way
love the fast sound of OTL with 600 ohm cans
tubes are the way to go hands down
did not care for the EL 'S by Audeze
some of the ultra exotic amps like 45 set did not live up to their looks
for digital get a 1541 chip cd player
Edits: 05/15/15 05/15/15 05/15/15
pretty informative
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields
No kidding.I was a Stax user, three years ago I switched to HD800's and a good tube amp, the Sound Quest SQ84-V2. 15wpc, two inputs, speaker outputs and great customer service from Quest for Sound.
The Audeze's are popular but they are too damn heavy and uncomfortable for me.
I love my HD800's to death. If I had to keep either them or my Quads it would be a tough choice.
"A lie is half-way around the world before the truth can get its boots on."
-Mark Twain
Edits: 05/14/15
They have made huge strides in the last few years in in ear monitor (IEM or ear buds) technology. You would be really amazed. I don't have a lot of experience in the price range you are considering. Most of my experience is under $500 new. But the IEMs in that price range are not that far off from the full range. Perhaps that doesn't translate to the higher end models. If you read just a few threads down you'll see a comparison I did between Focal Classic ($450), Beyerdynamic DT880 ($350) and JVC FX850 ($250-$300) The FX850s are IEMs and really hold their own to the full sized. I love them and wouldn't trade them for anything.
Many if not most of the IEMs in your price range are custom molds which are great! The custom ear mold completely isolates outside sound and are perfectly comfortable. I have a pair of etymotic HF2 with the custom molds and use them for travel or mowing the lawn etc... I am active duty military and have had my fair share of 50+ hour plane rides. I'll put the etymotics in just to filter out all the sound even if I am not listening to music. And isolating the outside noise has pretty significant impacts some good some bad. I recall one time I was listening to a live recording and a musician must have been picking up his/her instrument and I swear I thought someone was in the room with me! I jumped out of my chair because I knew no one was home at the time!
Anyway, I am not necessarily recommending an IEM. Perhaps in your price range they are not competitive I don't know. But given equal quality between an IEM and full sized headphones I would take the IEM in a heart beat!
I'm linking below a really exhaustive comparison between IEMs. This is probably dated now because it started a few years ago and I'm not sure how much updating has been done, but it will give you a flavor of what is out there. I would look more carefully before you rule them out!
Nate
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields
Make sure you pick something comfortable.
I love the Senn 800s, and the Bottlehead Crack/Speedball, despite it's low cost. The 800s are really comfortable (for me) despite their weight. Am rebuilding the Crack now with better components and wire, and adding a Corda crossfeed, which makes a huge difference, for me, on some recordings. If you are going to spend lots of time with headphones, try to audition a Corda crossfeed, so you'll know whether it's a big deal for you or not. Meier Audio has a line of products with the Corda circuit, and, bless them, published the circuit for DIYers. Nice.
Good luck!
WW
"A man need merely light the filaments of his receiving set and the world's greatest artists will perform for him." Alfred N. Goldsmith, RCA, 1922
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