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I am 68 years old. I have been an audiophile and music lover since I was 14. I was never interested in popular music even in high school. I preferred big band jazz and classical. I never attended any rock concerts. I frequented small jazz venues and was a patron of the regional philharmonic. I am a retired white collar professional. I was never around loud machinery. My ears always avoided youth abuse and any loud noises. I never smoked, rarely drank and have periodic medical exams.
About 4 years ago I lost my hearing completely in my left ear over several days. Ironically this happened as my contractor was finishing up work on a new dedicated listening room. I live in the Great Smoky Mountains area, the allergy capitol of the U.S. I had fluid buildup behind my eardrum which Afrin and several other medications eventually cleared up in less than a week.
I recently decided to have my hearing tested after putting it off a number of times. My physician gave me a referral to an ENT specialist. I did not expect the results to be dramatic. However, I have noticed that a certain insect which hums periodically in the summer night sky was not audible in my left ear. I also had difficulty hearing the shaker in the Rebecca Pigeon audiophile rendition of "Spanish Harlem" on the Chesky label. I really did not know what else I might have been missing.
I was tested by a licensed audiologist and then the results were reviewed with me by an M.D. who examined me further. I have a bilateral hearing loss at 2.5 kHz. In other words, I have no hearing sensitivity beyond that point in both ears. Given my history, I wanted to know how this could happen. He suspected that my hearing loss was the result of a shingles virus about the time of the fluid bulldup described previously. He said fluid pressure alone would not cause permanent damage such as I experienced. I asked how I could have gotten such a virus to affect both ears and he replied "just bad luck." I am scheduled for an additional test to detect possible auditory never damage. This would only tell me I have it but nothing can be done about it.
I know this is not life threatening but it certainly is not life enhancing, instead it is anxiety producing and depressing.
I am writing all this because I just do not know how I will ever come to terms with this. I spent so much of my life enjoying music and the equipment which brings it to life. I have a purpose built dedicated room in my house. I spent years reading classical music reviews to collect both sonically superior and critically acclaimed performances. I have owned at least 20 turntables in my life and now have a pricey but satisfactory for me digital playback system. I made a serious financial outlay last year buying a Berkeley Reference DAC and TARA Labs Zero Evolution balanced interconnects and new loudspeaker cables among other items. I was ready for the final search for my perfect loudspeaker system sometime this year. My complete system is listed in "Inmate systems" under my moniker.
I just was not aware my hearing was that impaired. This became the new normal I guess. I just do not know what to do. I have no interest in keeping the system on right now. It is usually on 24/7 but I just turned off the breaker. I do not know what I will be missing listening with my imperfect ears. I have thought about just giving up and selling everything. However, so much of my life is invested in all this stuff.
I do appreciate everyone who took the time to read all this. This is a situation which was totally out of my control and tests do not provide solutions. I really think I was better off not knowing I have this hearing deficiency. Looking at this equipment and my music collection now just gives me negative feelings.
Follow Ups:
I lost some of my hearing in my younger days, when I worked on noisy electric motors with the railroad.
Not bright enough at the time to wear hearing protection.
Steve
I've lost a bit of high frequency sensitivity in that ear, but don't know if related to moisture. I hope so. The constant heaviness is annoying.
I had fluid behind my eardrums in 7th grade, had to be drained.
Fluid buildup will cause temporary hearing loss. This happens because the fluid restricts the movement of the eardrum. However, once the fluid drains completely there should not be permanent damage and hearing should be fully restored.
Allergies can cause this fluid to develop. That was true in my case almost four years ago when I lost my hearing completely in my left ear for several days.
An Afrin generic equivalent should work. Do not use it much past 3 days because it is addictive and there is a rebound effect which will make things worse.
For allergies I take a prescription steroid nasal spray:
Flunisolide 25 MCG/ACT (0.025%) Nasal Solution
You spray it once or twice in each nostril twice per day. I haven't had fluid buildup for several years.
If when the fluid drains restricted hearing persists obviously there are other causes which must be explored.
I hope this helps.
Thanks, I'll try the Afrin for a few days. I also wear earplugs in the shower, not that it helps.
I've got a physical coming up again and will ask about the annoyance.
I mentioned elsewhere: when I complained to the doctor about the problem he simply banged a tuning fork on the edge of a table and then planted it on my forehead to prove I was fine.
Testing bone conduction like that does not distinguish between the ears nor does it detect any middle ear problems. It also only tests at the frequency of that tuning fork. Did he even tell you what it was?
Annoying dismissive behavior for a professional.
Doc's English wasn't that good.
I'm laughing about it now, but I was in mid-sentence, describing my stereo system, when he planted the base of the tuning fork on forehead.
People just don't understand us audiophiles.
( in both ears) would harden I would have gone deaf.
Never re-occured tho.
I'm counting on this hobby to keep me sane and busy in my elder years.
What's nice is that I still know so little Bach, Mozart and Haydn. Still so much to explore.
Let me join those encouraging you to not lose hope. My hearing stops around 6k,and I experience loud tinnitus. With all that music is still a joy. In fact, when listening to music the tinnitus frequently fades far enough into the background to be unnoticeable.
Stay with it and enjoy what is still there.
I am closer to 50 and have beat up my ears. I have been to hundreds of jam band concerts, I race cars (including enduro type races where I do 2.5 hour stints behind the wheel) and I can't hear much over 14k. I had a case of tinnitus that resolved (doc said some type of viral infection and prescribed steroids) after a couple weeks. That scare the crap out of me and I am always with earpro at concerts now.
Even though my hearing stops at 14k, I can hear the difference between a component swap in a system in a matter of seconds. In theory, I am missing almost 30% of my hearing freq range. But I enjoy music as much or more than ever!
Your hearing loss is greater but there is a huge amount of content in music below 2.5k. Up to about 3k is the top of the presence range and in many ways is the heart of music. If you enjoy listening to test tones and comparing "air" between audiophile tracks then you are screwed but if you love listening to music then you can still enjoy our hobby! I bet you can still hear the differences between components, put something old you have sitting around in your basement and see if you can hear a difference?
I referenced my demonstrated ability last year to distinguish substantial quality differences between newly acquired components and those they replaced. I had no difficult concluding the monetary resources were very well spent.
At that time I was not aware of any significant hearing loss. Ignorance certainly did not impair my enjoyment and may be of some benefit. As I stated previously, perhaps the brain compensates for some sensory deficiencies over time.
All the contributors' comments so far has made me feel much better and the concern here is very much appreciated.
My hearing loss above 6K was confirmed with the ENT recently.However,that wasn't the primary concern when I saw her. It's this annoying TINNITUS that sometimes drives me crazy!
You mentioned shingles, I had a bout of that too. While I'm at it, I've pushed through a stroke and suffer from painful degenerative arthritis in BOTH wrists!
I'm presently in the office recovering from a rotator cuff tear surgery almost 2 weeks ago.
Thank goodness, when I get home this afternoon I can turn the stereo on!
Edits: 12/27/16
I am sorry for your continuing health issues. We are fortunate music provides a very comforting positive contribution to our quality of life.
"I am sorry for your continuing health issues. We are fortunate music provides a very comforting positive contribution to our quality of life."
Very kind words, thank you. When I see/read about someone with even greater challenges, I'm GREATFUL for my condition , and not suffering as someone far worse off.
With luck, research in our lifetime will ease some of these ailments.
Hi House. Your ability to hear well in a crowded restaurant makes me think. Perhaps the frequencies beyond 2.5 khz is not all bad. There may be an interplay between the frequencies below and above that point which the audiograms do not quite catch. I have a feeling that a prop to the nerves catering to the higher frequencies would improve your enjoyment of music. Perhaps some treatment like Acupuncture might do it. Pardon me for this intuitive suggestion but no harm in trying it. I do not know if there are treatment centers in the US but I have seen some in India and of course China.
Regards
Bill
Audiological test suck.
The way they are done, and the signals used really are not anything like real world music.
Many reports by folks discuss the 'tests' they had, and that they also report they easily CAN hear music the 'tests' claim cannot be heard.
Something is seriously screwed up with the typical audiological test.
The op is reacting the same way a dude who sold me a used gizmo I really wanted (rare). That guy got the results, and let his depression over it, and his family talk him into selling his beloved equipment.
If you read MY test results you would swear I must be nearly deaf. But in reality I can easily hear the greater definition and clarity of new cables I bought (way better than the old ones,) on my (retail) $50,000 pile of audio toys. And I am playing music at average 50 to 70dB 'C' weighted at my listening position using a Radio Shack meter..
So I say: SUCK IT UP!! Stop worrying about what some jackass says you can or cannot hear.
Listen for yourself!
If music really no longer means anything. Then you have my condolences...
Otherwise stop whining, and face the music. Play what you like. and enjoy the glass still half full.
When you can fire a handgun a foot off you ear and only feel the pressure wave on your skin.. Well, then, yeah you are deaf.
My hearing sucks according to test results, but I can still tell a good system from a mediocre one (I don't know how), and music still moves me so f it. Do what you can. Screw the rest.
I agree with much of what you are saying. I do not have much confidence in the quality of the headphones they use for the test. There was another issue that really bothered me during the test. I could actually hear my own breathing and other random body noise such as swallowing, etc.
These extraneous sounds were very distracting to me and I told the audiologist that. Of course, she had no reply. Many times it appeared they were masking the test signals. I am not really confident I accurately reported what was intended to be heard as a result.
I also fully agree with you on demonstrated and detectable changes after a new equipment acquisition. Last year I replaced a 20 year old Wadia DAC with the Berkeley Reference and TARA Labs RS-1 interconnects with the very pricey Zero Evolutions. Both times the changes were dramatic and not subtle at all. I could list the differences each time without hesitation and I was very pleased with my choices.
The brain may be compensating for any differences or shortcomings in our senses. That would help to explain why both you and I can still detect the defintion changes you mention.
If the tests were not made under proper conditions including an acoustically-isolated enclosure and sealed sealed over-the-ear calibrated headphones, the results are unreliable. Your ability to hear extraneous sounds is indicative of inadequate test conditions.
Clearly, however, you have reason to be concerned and the best possible procedure would be to have a full assessment at a major specialized medical hearing clinic/insititute, like House Ear Institute, to get this resolved. There are similar others in the USA.
The distracting sounds I was hearing were my own internally generated bodily noises not those external to the control booth. The chamber itself was very quiet with a door that sealed. I was not aware of any environmental influences.
I do not know what could be done about this. Was it a fault of the headphones? The audiologist had no response to my complaint. This does cause me concern regarding valid and reliable results however.
I misunderstood. Hearing your own internal sounds is an indication of good environmental isolation. There is no way to suppress such perceptions.
Nonetheless, I would still suggest a work-up at a major hearing center. Bilateral loss of that degree is something one can deal with but you should determine if it is just one point on a progression and if that progression can be slowed or stopped.
Well I guess many of us are in the same boat. I'm only 62 and I lost hearing in one ear just as I was buying a new house and getting ready for a major upgrade to my stereo. Man am I bummed out. But I still like music and I'm not going to quit. It is a bit of a shocker to loose your hearing after a lifetime of using and protecting it but it's out of my hands now. I'm just going to do the best I can with what I have left.
We have absolutely no control over many of these things no matter how well we take care of ourselves.
Ten years ago I lost my sight in my left eye over several days due to a torn retina. One year later the same thing happened in my right eye. Emergency laser surgery corrected this both times and restored my vision.
Both times I did nothing physical to bring on the condition. The first time it happened I was at work at my desk. When the right eye failed suddenly I just finished eating dinner and was sitting at the table on Christmas eve.
Absolutely nothing can compare to losing your sight. I am not a prizefighter or a construction worker. I was told this happened both times because I had a large amount of sticky floaters. They pulled on the retinas over time eventually tearing them.
Like the hearing loss: "Just bad luck!" There was nothing I could do to prevent any of this. In so many ways the human body is just a very bad design.
If you have the funds and time, you should travel to Los Angeles and visit the House Clinic. This place has done some miraculous procedures to restore people's hearing (cochlear implants, etc.).... If there is a place that can possibly restore your hearing to an appreciable degree, it is the House Clinic.
I worked in a psychoacoustic lab located on property adjacent to the House Institute. They can offer a level of expertise beyond that of an ENT, and are known for innovative surgeries. A friend's father had a problem his local ENT told him he would just have to live with. I suggested he see the House Institute where a life-threatening tumor was removed.
db
Sorry to hear this. I have a different hearing condition which was caused by a virus.
Did your ENT recommend an MRI? I had many tests performed and an MRI of the brain was one of the first. It shows the inner ear and the pathways to the brain.
The most intensive treatment would be at a ENT (OTL) department in a good hospital.
Excellent, story thank you.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Some here might despise him, but Rush Limbaugh's hearing was partly restored at the House Clinic.
...thru R & L cochlear implants. Somewhat more radical than hearing aids being discussed here. And he frequently tells us that while effective for speech, they demolish music into a sensation of strange buzzing "noises".
I'm 67, with significant hearing loss, which I feel I at least partially deserve from some abuse of my ears. I went through a period of mourning several years ago when I found out how objectively bad my hearing was. I eventually realized I could still still tell a good sounding system from a lesser one, and enjoyed live music just as I did before my hearing test. I have a high quality system and enjoy it as much as before. I have hearing aids and am in the market for better ones. I regularly attend chamber music concerts, ballet, and small venue popular music and enjoy the sound more without them. You listen to the advice of experts and adapt. You'll enjoy your system again. You probably won't be tempted to buy a super-tweeter, though.
I was a board certified hearing instrument specialist. Do you want to post your audiogram? Are you sating you have normal hearing to 2.5K then a loss of some level? Its normal for most people to have some hearing loss by your age.
How do you do with speech? Do you hear others OK? The TV? How about in a noisy room or restaurant? Do you use headphones?
You said you put the test off so you know you had some loss. Dont let the result you really already knew get you down. Email and or call and we can discuss this further.
You can still enjoy music life and everything else.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Hi!
Thank you for your interest and trying to help. I tried to e-mail you but the system will not allow any unsolicited per your request.
To answer your questions:
Regarding speech, no issues with conversation, the TV or noisy environments such as a restaurant.
I never use headphones. I do not own them.
Yes, I have normal hearing to 2.5kHz and then none after that frequency. I was brave enough yesterday to play one of the test CD's I have and do a pink noise sweep. I could hear 2.5kHz with my right ear but not with the left and no frequencies beyond that in either ear.
I knew about the insect sound at night for at least a year. For some time I was curious why I could not easily identify the sound of the shaker on the previously mentioned Chesky CD. I had no idea what else i may have been missing or fow how long.
I never had symptoms of shingles but I did have measels as a child.
Regarding my audiogram results. I can try scanning it tomorrow. In the meantime I can report the following:
SRT: Air:Right 10; Left 5
Recognition: Right 100 (55 with masking employed).
Left 76 (75 with masking employed).
The hearing threshold level shows a drop of approx. 25 db at 2.5kHz in the right ear and 40 for the left. This continues on a downward curve for both ears until 70 db down at 8kHz.
The audiologist marked the test reliability as good.
Please let me know if this is an adequate summation for you to draw any conclusions thereby making a scan of the audiogram redundant.
Thank you again all responding members for your, time interest and somewhat comforting reassurance.
There is a website associated with my account that has an email address.e. Email when you have time. Yes good job explaining the audiogram, no scan required. So you hear better in one ear a bit. I think the loss happened over time .Do you? If your hearing went from pretty good to this bad in even a couple of years you would have been more aware.
It is likely this loss took many years and occurred slowly over time like most older adults that suffer from hearing loss. Do/did you ride a motorcycle without hearing protection? (a helmet doesnt count)
Finally with this loss Id be surprised if you hear everything when watching TV even if its a little loud. Hearing in a noisy restaurant must be difficult. It isnt easy for many with normal or close to normal hearing levels. You might want to reassess this with other family members.
If you have a good ENT/Audiologist follow their recommendation which will likely be for some hearing aid. They are not cheap BUT in every state they have a money back guarantee so set worries aside and give it a go knowing if it doesnt work out you have a an out clause. Good luck.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
I never owned a motorcycle or rode one. I also thought of this happening over time. If it a very subtle change you certainly would not notice it, can get used to it and accept it as the new normal I suppose.
I have a 65" panel display in the living room. It is elevated above the fireplace and I sit about 10 to 12 feet away from it. I never need to turn the volume up to hear dialog. The volume is less than 20% of the maximum range of the set most of the time. In fact, my wife runs her small business all day from an adjoining room and never closes the door. She has her TV on while she is in there and i can actually hear the dialog from her set while mine is on in the living room.
I have no difficulty in a noisy restaurant hearing the server, my wife or the neighboring table conversation.
Hearing is certainly a mysterious thing.
I had fluid in my right ear, went to and ENT and had the right eardrum pierced to remove fluid. Haven't been the same since, this of course happened when I got the opportunity to have my first dedicated area for listening built over a decade ago.
I feel your pain, I don't have the best hearing myself, at one point it was 20% above normal. Sometimes I wonder if all this equipment is worth it. I do have a little bluetooth speaker I use for my laptop, I sometimes get more enjoyment out of that than sitting in the big room with all the equipment fired up and wonder if all the high end stuff was all just excess debauchery as I get older.
I think it is about the music, knowing your system in the profile and talking to you over in speaker asylum and knowing you have the same speakers as me it kind of sucks hearing that from you as well. If you enjoyed before why not now? Because you know that you just can't hear the details? Can you get enjoyment out of it the way it is? If not I would downsize and perhaps use the savings elsewhere. However don't do anything that would make you regret it. Even if completely deaf I would keep my main system, it is that important to me. Perhaps being shocked by measurements, this time of your own ears freaked you out?
I wouldn't worry about it really. I'm still on a quest for that perfect loudspeaker myself, I don't think there is one, maybe the Ref 4 or whatever it will be called.
On an unrelated subject, yes we have the same loudspeakers. I have not had reason to change especially given that the Ref 3.5's reveal any equipment upgrades I can throw at them, no matter how steep the price.
Most dynamic loudspeakers use the same tired theme: A fancy wooden box with a hole punched in it somewhere, multiple off the shelf slightly tweaked drivers and a complicated 4th order network.
I have had my Ref 3.5's since they were first introduced in 2010, I bought them new. There has been no real annoucement of a replacement going on 7 years. There is now a company ownership change. You can read about it in the link. See post #3242, the 2nd one down and post # 3254, the 14th down.
Hi House... I am so sorry for your hearing issue... I have had a similar loss, but probably not quite to your level. I am a pro violinist, and have increasing difficulty as to pitch intonation. When I went to the audiologist, he told me that most musicians have my difficulty and recommended I try hearing aids. I too have a very high end system so the quality of sound that an aid provides is critical...not just that it provide the lost frequencies. I tried many models of many brands...most were "digital" in the worst sense. I then came across the ones I ultimately chose....a Swiss company - Bernafon. It took me a bit of time to become accustomed to them, but they are a revelation for me. The stereo has opened up, I can now hear what the 2nd violins are doing...without the hearing aids, the system is severely hooded. My violin performance is much better as well. I got the Bernafons at Costco for way cheaper than any other provider...they also were very patient with me trying all the models they had.
Which model Bernafon did you choose? I remember when you were dissatisfied with all hearing aids, so they must be good. I'm in the market for new hearing aids. I remember you from when you were in the Az AudioVideo Club. I was sorry when you dropped out.
Hi Boboli..... So many aids do the job with speech, but not so well with music. I tried every brand and model I could find... digital at its worst. I have the top of the line Bernefon called the Juna 9. Their specialty is their abiity with music. When I listen with/without the hearing aids, it sounds like a heavy quilt is removed from my head. Best mod yet. I got them in Costco...they were very nice and patient. If you call the Costco on Haydn Rd, I understand the factory rep will be there. Some brands can stream from you Iphone, connect via Blutooth to the tv, and do all kinds of tricks. The Bernefon can't do all of that, but the sound quality is the best. Try them out to make your own decision. Stan
Same type of story.
Despite my hearing loss, I can still appreciate good music and good sound.
Most hearing aids clip as the a to d chip can't follow the music. It's better without them. (Phonek)
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