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In Reply to: RE: Are audiophiles an endangered "species?" posted by Todd Krieger on October 29, 2016 at 15:38:24
Processed sounds don't always sound "natural" but it is possible to use processed sounds to create a high-quality and cohesive (albeit "unnatural sounding") artistic statement. As long as you don't expect a performance or recording designed to sound "right, but in an unnatural way" to sound like something it isn't meant to be, you won't be disappointed.Music requires the use of sounds, but it does not care if the sounds are natural or unnatural, processed or unprocessed. All that matters is that the arrangement of sounds somehow satisfies musical sense in the listener. Recordings that use electronically produced or manipulated sounds do have a unique character, to be sure, but that is beside the point.
While it is true that audiophiles depend on the availability of good recordings, it should be admitted that good recordings are of many types.
A good hifi system will bring out the fullness of expression in any good recording, regardless of the kind. So that, anyone who enjoys either "natural" or "unnatural" sounds in music will not feel that money spent on a decent hifi system is money wasted.
Edits: 10/29/16 10/29/16 10/29/16 10/29/16Follow Ups:
"Processed sounds don't always sound 'natural' but it is possible to use processed sounds to create a high-quality and cohesive (albeit 'unnatural sounding') artistic statement. As long as you don't expect a performance or recording designed to sound 'right, but in an unnatural way' to sound like something it isn't meant to be, you won't be disappointed."
Aside from "distortion" on electric guitar or processing used for "effects", I don't know of a case where applying processing to a recording is "artistic".......
"Music requires the use of sounds, but it does not care if the sounds are natural or unnatural, processed or unprocessed."
It may not care, but the listeners certainly do...... Someone can listen to a washing machine, and think it's music........
"All that matters is that the arrangement of sounds somehow satisfies musical sense in the listener. Recordings that use electronically produced or manipulated sounds do have a unique character, to be sure, but that is beside the point."
People don't really find today's music "satisfying"..... They listen to it because others listen to it..... And when they stop listening to it, it's forgotten.
"While it is true that audiophiles depend on the availability of good recordings, it should be admitted that good recordings are of many types."
Granted.....
"A good hifi system will bring out the fullness of expression in any good recording, regardless of the kind. So that, anyone who enjoys either 'natural' or 'unnatural' sounds in music will not feel that money spent on a decent hifi system is money wasted."
I cannot speak for others, but I find Auto-Tuned vocals to be more tolerable on a cheap radio than on a high-end audio system..... And that is the common denominator in most recent pop recordings.
First of all, how can you know (at least to the extent that you claim to know) how and why so MANY other people deal with and mentally ingest their music?The first five words of the last sentence in your post actually make some sense. Those five words should become your mantra for the upcoming New Year...
"I cannot speak for others".
All that said, I have my suspicions too...
For instance, I too suspect that some people have always listened to music just because some other people were listening to it. And I suspect that a lot of the music produced in any era was or will be just as superficial as some of the people listening to it. All of this, and more, was true back in Beethoven's day and it is true today.
Today's people have many more and different entertainment options (distractions?) than ever. Over the last 100 years, the arts of watching and communicating have surely diminished the importance of the art of listening.
I doubt that we'll ever make pure listening as important as it once was because we have grown to prefer the entertainment of several sensory organs at one time over more singular forms of entertainment. It no longer feels natural to sit and stare at a Victrola, a radio, or a pair of speakers as if doing so was the epitome of sublime living.
Edits: 10/29/16 10/29/16 10/30/16
Just making it clear that it's an opinion of my own....... And it does not necessarily reflect the views of others.
"Opinions" are more than welcome, at least by me. And opinions based almost completely on intuitions or feelings are often the most intriguing ones.
Problem is, after a certain number of repetitions, opinions not backed up by substantive evidence take on a weathered or hackneyed demeanor.
Prefacing intuitive opinions with the words "I suspect..." can help things somewhat. But even so, there are limits to how many times we can repeat unsubstantiated or speculative opinions. Don't you think?
Just my opinion, of course.
some kind of stereo array, and preferably zero / only minimal spot-miking, of acoustic music. Minimal takes, also.NB Stereo here meaning 3D / solid in Greek, 2Ch OR MCh.
It's not that I don't enjoy multiple close-mono-miked mix-downs of music made in a studio & often in lone sessions, along with Eq, reverb, flanging, phasing, Aphexing, and COMPRESSION. I have a lot of such recordings.
Noting that with those bands who do/did perform on stage and could then gave a considerably greater input from themselves - as musicians interacting with each other, I tend to prefer their live recordings for that reason alone.
I want to hear as much musicianship as possible, as it's at the core of all music.
All such recordings are lossy. (Search - is your friend).
BTAgain, I didn't get into high fidelity for such recordings. ;-)
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 10/29/16
... are what some people enjoy most. And to them, those kinds of successful recordings are "good recordings". Obviously so, at least to me.Enjoying a recording for what it is (or even, for what it is NOT) is one type (out of many types) of enjoyment. Record appreciation is (or can be) as much about fantasy or personal preference as about reference to any live event or thing.
You've stated your preferences, and your references. Other people have stated theirs. I see nothing more to this issue, than that.
The enjoyment of others may actually be of a different kind than the type of enjoyment you favor, but all types may in fact be *true enjoyment of true art*. And really, what else matters in record appreciation?
The common interest shared by all types of audiophiles, I think, is an interest in the preservation of the dynamics contained within any given recording. IMO, this is just another way of saying that every true audiophile has an elemental interest in transparency of reproduction. High quality systems are transparent enough to reveal the complete structure of all of the music contained in any type of good recording. It's what we all want - or dare I say, SHOULD want.
Edits: 10/29/16
You don't have any clear values at all.
Except disliking women.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I've specialized in live 'location' recording for decades. I'm not particularly interested in multi-track studio recording, although it can be fun, but there's just too much grunt work involved which doesn't interest me as an ongoing career endeavor. On the other hand, I'm happy, and actually energized, by setting a bunch of mics and speakers and mixing board stuff for a live event. To me, it's the creativity in the moment that I like. But put me in a studio with 30 tracks to mix and no musicians around playing music - yawn.
That's not to say that I don't appreciate, admire and even revere the work of top studio engineers. Some of their work is absolutely wonderful audio art.
On the other hand, there are a lot of both close-mic'd and minimally mic'd recording which absolutely suck from a sonic/soundscape perspective.
:)
First of all, I doubt that you are capable of adequately summing up my position here. Your fury will continue to get in the way of your doing that.It is on record that, if/when anyone contradicts or challenges your opinions on almost anything, your own prejudices won't allow you to maintain a civil conversation. As usual, you resort to the use of personal attacks whenever you don't like or agree with what someone else is saying. Please try to restrain yourself. Don't go out and suffocate your wife, or your cats, or anything like that on our account. Try to maintain a grip, this is not the Inmate Central forum.
Whew! Onwards...
Basically, all I am saying is that EVERYTHING matters. And because everything matters, the rules we adopt for the making of recordings and/or for the effective playback of various types of recordings can vary somewhat.
Edits: 10/30/16 10/30/16
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