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In Reply to: RE: Which component has benefited most/least from modern tech? posted by MannyE on April 25, 2016 at 07:33:41
Most: Loudspeakers, phono cartridges. The latter only because the percentage of defective units seems to have gone way down in recent time..... I also think budget vinyl playback ($500 to $1000) is as good as it's ever been.Least: Digital audio. Although improved over the past three years (due mainly to the "obsolescence" of asynchronous upsampling), the potential of it displacing analog altogether hasn't come close to realization. I also think computer and server based audio is a nice novelty/convenience product, but a large step backwards in regard to the quality of playback from a sonic standpoint. (I think RFI emissions is the single biggest killer of musical enjoyment in playback.... And computers are RFI monsters. I think RFI is why MP3 and iTunes have become popular as mainstream formats. The higher the resolution of the digital data used in playback, the higher the RFI emissions.)
I think "lossless compression" (FLAC, Apple Lossless, APE, etc.), a popular playback format in server-based and portable audio, has some strange artifacts decoded in real time..... Most notably the "attenuation of vibrato" from singers and solo musicians.
I personally believe the best digital audio, in regard to overall sonic presentation, took place prior to the year 2000. Prior to the introduction of asynchronous upsampling, which I believe set back the art a good 15 years. Not to mention enable the survival and comeback of vinyl playback.
And finally, I believe Redbook CD playback has rarely been implemented to its potential.... Mainly due to RFI emissions..... For the rare occasions it is implemented well, I believe it's the best sounding of all digital playback formats.
Edits: 04/25/16Follow Ups:
Todd,
You need to get out and see/hear what is possible. Upsampling to high speed DSD and using a great DAC is out of this world better than any pre 2000 system....any. One guy says it is better than his $20,000 turntable with $5,000 cartridge. Another says that upsampling DSD 64 to DSD 512 sounds better than any other source period....including reel to reel.
Other pure R2R DACs like the big MSB and Trinity also make PCM sound outrageous. This has never happened before. We are hearing things on CDs that were recorded in the 80s that we never knew existed. Here is a couple of links that are just the tip of the iceberg:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?20405-T-A-1-bit-converters-in-the-PDP-3000HV-and-DAC-8-DSD
http://www.head-fi.org/t/780385/gustard-x20-dac/615
People are recording in Quad DSD and cannot hear ANY difference between analog tape and a copy......this is exciting. Digital has arrived!
However, you cannot just set up a junk computer to do the sending....you need to tweak every part and every cable. Just like anything else. You will be rewarded for your efforts.
"You need to get out and see/hear what is possible."
This is why I attend audio shows.... Will be at THE Show in Newport Beach, CA next month.
"Upsampling to high speed DSD and using a great DAC is out of this world better than any pre 2000 system....any."
If it's upsampled asynchronously, I've yet to hear something comparable.... If it's upsampled *with* DSD, it's an improvement, but I've heard better with older "*x oversampled" Redbook playback.
"One guy says it is better than his $20,000 turntable with $5,000 cartridge. Another says that upsampling DSD 64 to DSD 512 sounds better than any other source period....including reel to reel."
Won't doubt that.... I've also met people who think MP3 was the best thing they've ever heard......
"Other pure R2R DACs like the big MSB and Trinity also make PCM sound outrageous. This has never happened before. We are hearing things on CDs that were recorded in the 80s that we never knew existed. Here is a couple of links that are just the tip of the iceberg...."
There is a lot of good CD playback out there.... But I've yet to hear high-resolution digital audio playback that I thought was listenable for an extended period of time.
"People are recording in Quad DSD and cannot hear ANY difference between analog tape and a copy......this is exciting. Digital has arrived!"
I'll probably encounter a lot of it next month...... Although DSD is still expensive in most cases.
"However, you cannot just set up a junk computer to do the sending....you need to tweak every part and every cable. Just like anything else. You will be rewarded for your efforts."
Maybe..... But I lost faith in computer playback when the OS was updated.... Or even the hard drive defragmented.... Computer audio is too much of a black art, vulnerable to upgrades.... (I've even heard degradation with updates to player software, ripping software, and burning software.) And even when I had good computer audio, it was a different ballgame with a good dedicated CD playback rig.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?20541-DSD512-May-Fest-in-Munich-2016
what about here ...
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5842?by_user=florianw
Speakers are 'nother matter but inarguably there has been Damned little improvement over Drivers the like of 604's et al.
Dr Toole's analysis procedures has allowed speakers to be adequately tested and improved.. hardly universally though.
Amps ? Dunno, except Pass designs are ever improving with a comensurate parts count reduction.
Tubes ? ARE Over.. everywhere except in the minds OF the Flat Earth types.
Digital? Plusses And Minuses abound....Mebe in a few more years.
Edits: 04/25/16
For example, in the last decade, ceramics have gotten better and become more mainstream. Also, ribbon tweeters have come a long way. The Raidho and RAAL ribbons I've heard are magnificent.
Metal domes have gotten better too, you don't often hear the brightness/resonance problems anymore that used to be common with metal domes. The latest Magico Be tweeter that is trickling down their product line right now is amazing.
And soft domes are better than ever, with wider bandwidth and new coatings to reduce breakup. Ring radiators were the hot ticket 5-10 years ago but it seems like the improvements in dome tweeters have tilted the balance back in their favor.
In general, midrange and mid-bass drivers seem to keep getting cleaner and faster.
Mostly this comes from taking advantage of improvements in materials science, improvements in computer-aided design and manufacturing, and new production processes.
These improvements are pushing the state of the art in the high end, but I think the bigger impact is in lower end of the market. A decade ago you just couldn't buy something with the price/performance of the new Elacs or KEF LS50.
Ever voiced one of those ceramic drivers , they sound pretty unnatural to me , granted its been more than a decade since i had last done so ...
So far I've heard ceramic drivers in Avalon, Kharma, Marten, and Raidho. The Avalon was a store demo a long time ago and it wasn't really to my taste, but it was being driven by Spectral which I know isn't to my taste. Kharma was nice. Marten was a bit meh. Raidho was nice.
I think the Raidho drivers are really quite impressive. That ribbon tweeter is amazing and the diamond coated ceramic drivers are awesome in the midrange. Unfortunately, I don't like the way they voice their speakers with a phat mid-bass.
Yeah, some seem to be getting good sound out of the ceramic (pure pistonic) drivers. If you run them with steep slopes (24db) and keep them in their sweet spot you can get away with it somewhat, i could not get over their coloration at the time and thought the effort would amount to naught.
I actually agree about the drivers..... The cabinet designs, crossover designs, and driver integration are vastly improved.
RFI emissions would be conducted, not radiated, at music-playback frequencies. 'Radiated' RFI goes from 30MHz to 1GHz.So -how is digital damaging itself ? Wouldn't the 'conducted' energy harm other audio components instead ?
Edits: 04/25/16
"RFI emissions would be conducted, not radiated, at music-playback frequencies. 'Radiated' RFI goes from 30MHz to 1GHz."
The components in the circuitry act like "capacitors" at those frequencies.... That's how the RFI just permeates the circuit.
The airborne RFI can be demonstrated by holding an AM radio near an active digital playback circuit..... Or especially near an active computer.
"So -how is digital damaging itself ? Wouldn't the 'conducted' energy harm other audio components instead ?"
Yes, in fact.... I've seen this demonstrated..... A vinyl rig sounds a lot better with no active digital circuitry connected to the system than with active digital circuitry connected to the system. The problem with digital playback is that the RFI is an integral part of the process.
I personally think prior to the digital age, it was much easier to get good sound quality with seemingly modest gear.
Radiated RFI comes from power supplies, motors, transformers, heaters, lamps.Do we know what digital-chipsets radiate at ? The clock could be doing it...
Edits: 04/26/16
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