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In Reply to: RE: One notch at a time posted by genungo on July 05, 2015 at 08:01:09
I think it is an exponential system we see here.
to put it into perspective, steak 10 years ago (the food source), what a good steak at about $5 10 years ago, now it is about $30, for something similar with a ghost of what it was in the past.
I think I just figured out that I need to spend about half a million to about 2MM dollars to get one more notch up with I currently have.
Now all these vintage guys make complete sense to me.
Follow Ups:
I can better your system for $10-15K no problem.
I will agree somewhat and with a few exceptions, especially with all the retro moves in audio today with tubes and Horns...
Regards
The designs of horns and tubes today are anything but retro, with some exceptions for restored Altecs and JBLs etc. However, much of that technology was never really bettered and new designs are taking advantage of materials advancements that probably make the most difference.
It was funny listening to the "baby" Western Electric system they had in Munich this year (it was NOT domestic friendly). It was the ONLY system at the show that brought tears to my wife's eyes (literally). While we both agreed the Living Voice/Kondo system was more realistic in like being at a real concert, the WE/Silbatone system was utterly involving and moving. Imperfect, for sure, but in ways that matter far less than you think. I doubt your system will move someone in the same way...i have heard very few that do.
Funny and Ironic , toobs and horns not being retro , yet you rave over the "WE" setup .. :)
And the electrostatic speaker concept predates moving coils and ribbons date from the 1920s. Not to mention the plasma ion speaker, the principle has been known since the late 1800s (the singing arc!). So, there is actually nothing really new and in that sense it can all be seen as "retro" to whomever might decide to call it that. Horns of course, being acoustic transformers, were probably the most popular early on when the amp power was low and you had to fill a whole theater full with sound. This is why it probably seems retro to you.
Quad was famous not because they invented the electrostatic speaker but because they figured out how to make it sort of reliable and somewhat room friendly (in the beginning you only needed 1). Ribbons have been commercially available, at least as tweeters, also since the mid 1950s. Now though with rare earth magnets we can bring that "retro" technology up to fairly high sensitivity. Horns have been improved as well, although I will reiterate that the old ones were pretty special as well and if you haven't heard it then you don't know what you are missing. I heard recently a 40K WE clone system, although it used original Jensen 15 inch field coil drivers.
Hell, even that idea has come back as people have realized you can control damping of a driver pretty effectively this way (witness Focal's Grand Utopia Be EM with electromagnetic damping adjustment).
Also, horn design has not been static anymore than other types of speaker design (witness the latest from Avantgarde, Odeon, Acapella, Living Voice, Tune Audio and many others).
Finally, the tube designs, although taking the basic concepts from the simplest designs...ie. the SET doesn't make it anymore retro than a ribbon speaker. Modern transformers, modern passive parts and even modernized circuit and especially power supply designs make them pretty far removed from the SETs of the 1920s and 1930s. Taking a concept from the past and executing it in a modern way is not necessarily retro...although that is the angle that some strive for...it is a wide open market afterall.
Precisely and you made my point , it's all retro with speakers , toobs take it full circle ...
KR invented new tubes just about 20 years ago...is that retro or new then??
Yes, Kinda like reinventing Aspirin in a new tamper proof box ....... :)
Edits: 07/09/15
No, its like calling a 2015 911 turbo retro because its progenitor dates from the 1930s (the famous Volkswagen Beetle).
Morri ,
I do believe the Baby WE brought tears to your wife eyes after seeing them , I'm sure she envisioned you bringing a pr of those WAF "Beasties" home ...,. :)
Well at least you try to have a sense of humor...
It all depends.I don't think there has ever been an easy way to calculate or quantify "performance for the dollar". 20K spent in 2016 might buy a hell of a lot more than 20K spent in 2000 - or it might not. It might depend on the products and brands involved and - last but not least - our personal state of mind and subjective impressions. When it comes to anything that's considered *hi-tech* at any given moment, I can think of one possible "rule of thumb" and that is: "Buy cheap and buy often". It's practically impossible to keep up with the pace of innovation sometimes.
Edits: 07/05/15 07/05/15 07/05/15 07/05/15
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