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In Reply to: RE: Very well put.. posted by slapshot on May 09, 2015 at 14:35:11
"Well, the mistake here, that both of us are making is painting with broad strokes: we have not defined "pharmaceuticals" or "pharmacological treatments".Wrong. I was specifically speaking of psychotropics in general and more specifically mainly neuroleptics, all of which I clearly mentioned earlier.
"That being said, no pharmaceuticals that I know of severe the corticothalamic and thalamocortical axons between the prefrontal cortex and the dorsomedial thalamus, which is the primary goal of leucotomies."
Trying to increase your credibility or confuse me with fancy scientific terms won't work. Of course the neuroleptics aren't physically severing anything. But you can achieve the same permanent damage chemically. The good scientists, like you, have in recent years done MRI studies on folks heavily dosed on neuroleoptics showing, over time, permanent shrinkage of the frontal lobes and swelling of the basal ganglia resulting in more psychosis, rather than less. Physical changes to the brain. These changes are permanent. They now have new medical names for the new conditions (permanent damage) caused by these drugs. For example neuroleptic-induced acute dystonia and neuroleptic malignant syndrome. Symptoms include akathisia, parkinsonism and tardive dyskinesia. I believe the last symptom was coined after the side-effects of the first generation neuroleptics were studied. There are other conditions and symptoms but I don't have the time or desire to list them all. And we're just talking about the neuroleptics and atypical anti-psychotics. We could have similar discussions regarding the SRRIs and newer class SRRNIs (anti-depressant class) among others.
Most disturbing to me, based on recent Medicare Part D data, of the top prescribed drugs, number four is Abilify (atypical anti-psychotic) and five is Cymbalta (SRRNI, latest generation anti-depressant). In addition, compare the cost of Abilfy to the surrounding medical drugs; the profits are over twice that of the others.
If you ask most people today to describe a schizophrenic, most will describe a zombie like person: shuffling around, swollen tongue hanging out, drooling, twitching and jerking, etc. Just watch any TV show or movie depicting the severely mentally ill and you'll see this The use of these drugs have been so prevalent in our society since the 1950s, what people are now describing are the effects of neuroleptics and second generation atypical anti-psychotics and have nothing to do with schizophrenia.
For brief time, the mid-80s, neuroleptics went out of favor when writings of Soviet dissidents and political prisoners started to leak out (Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn is probably the best known). Long story short: the Soviets were using the same drugs to torture their political prisoners that we were using to treat our mentally ill. In many cases we were using the higher dosages.
Also keep in mind that many of the severely mentally ill (many of which were, when they first entered the hospital, just mildly neurotic) got that way from the treatment, not the initial symptoms.
Now you may say that newer, superior, atypical anti-psychotics have now replaced the first generation neuroleptics. Just to save time, I would counter that this newer generation is even worse and will cite other scientific studies to prove my point. Also, it will be helpful to all reading this to understand the main reason most of the newer psychotropics are developed. With all pharmaceuticals, patents eventually expire and so do the obscene profits as the generics take their place. So to keep the shareholders happy, slight or major changes are made (as I stated earlier, the first generation neuroleptics only blocked dopamine, the new generation atypical anti-psychotics block both dopamine and serotonin), new patents are obtained and ka-ching. Helping the mentally ill live better lives is at the bottom of the list of objectives, if there at all. So now they discredit their previous "medical miracle" in order to sell the latest "medical miracle". And so on.
As long as you continue to make false or misleading statements, I will be compelled to call you out on it. I hope you are not as sloppy or biased in your research.
Really, like you suggested earlier, let's give this a rest. Although mentally exhausted, I always enjoy to be challenged intellectually and you have certainly done a good job there unlike a couple of the other respondees. For that I thank you and keep up the good work.
Edits: 05/13/15 05/13/15 05/13/15 05/13/15Follow Ups:
"I thought the post would be interesting to most music lovers whether they play or not. Didn't think this would start a pissing contest. But then it is AA."
Yet, you're doing a pretty good job of turning your own thread into an off-topic pissing contest with Slapshot.
First, I consider my discussion with slapshot an intelligent discussion, unlike some of the other sub-threads which I was referring to. Of course, one would have to be intelligent to get that.
Second, no one is forcing anyone to read this. What's your problem? Don't like the content of this sub-thread?
Finally, I stand by what I originally said. I certainly did not start the hypocritical eco criticisms.
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