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In Reply to: RE: Half arsed unthinking bullshit. AI uses programs written by humans. posted by Timbo in Oz on May 09, 2015 at 02:22:20
...the form true AI ultimately takes is entirely unpredictable at this point To believe it MUST emulate its biological creator is supremely and dangerously arrogant. For all we know, it will effectively create "itself" once it unshackles itself from the limitations of its biological progenitors.
Follow Ups:
Interesting. (Sorry, this got long).Many themes about humans creating AI involve us projecting our own nature on the AI, even though it may possess self awareness and go on to form it's own philosophies and values. We experience self awareness to be a double-edged sword, one which can offer interests and fascination in the world around us, and a desire to help others and better ourselves, but also frustration, existential angst, nihilism, racism, elitism. Humans are a unique combination of incredible, and polar opposite strengths and weaknesses.
Our first reaction is that a "new" self-aware entity would suffer from distress or worse, come to the conclusion that humans are either better off if annihilated, or at least deserving of such treatment. Again, we can look in the mirror for examples of this behavior - racism, genocide and extermination of other species, even if the vehicle for such is simply apathy.
Two great examples are "The Terminator" and "The Matrix".
Terminator: T1000 (Arnie) "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves..."
Martrix: Agent Smith:
"Agent Smith: - I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I've realized that you are not actually mammals. (Smiles) Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment. But you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. (Leans forward) There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague. And we are... the cure."
These sentiments appear to be a prediction on what AI would be like, but on closer examination they are statements about our own self-image as a species. Who don't know how AI would develop emotionally or socially and at what rate. It could give us a lesson in compassion and reason, or it could become a Borg-like nightmare hellbent on annihilation or assimilation of every other species.
Since we only have ourselves for a reference of how beings of high intelligence will evolve, we get the themes above. The one trouble with creating *true* AI (as defined by self-awareness) is that suddenly a machine or processor is sentient and skips pasts tens or hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.
We had all kinds of time and still evolved into a bit of a mess. Genocide, environmental holocaust, and threatening our very existence merely through how we have chosen to exist. The basic North American definition of "base line success" is completely unsustainable from an ecological perspective - today - even before all of China and India complete their modern-era industrial revolutions and bring the living standards of their citizens closer to what we in 1st world nations enjoy and pretty much take for granted.
The Terminator was right. It's in our nature to destroy ourselves. So will a sentient life form we create destroy itself? Or will it find some reason to destroy us?
My take is that if you create something that has self-awareness and free-will you have no idea how it will initially react, how fast it will evolve, how quickly it will amass intelligence, most definately what philosophies and values it will hold once it gets to higher levels of intelligence.
Also part of our ego as a species is to think we are current "da shit" - we have evolved as far as we can as a species and now it's about waiting for geniuses among us to come up with new technologies to save our frail mortal bodies and dying planet. On a continuum of intelligence, we don't like to envision us as being hardly more advanced than cave men forming tribes and warring over land and food supplies.
In many ways, we are still very primitive despite our technological advancements. Actually, we're really dangerous, like an evolutionary baby wielding a nail gun or a Skil saw.
It's surely fantastic food for thought.
Cheers,
Prest
Edits: 05/10/15
While I agree that AI has some scarey potential, and will require control, I remain alert but skeptical. So, I do keep an eye out on this subject.Try these two articles to see why I agree about the long term and why I am skeptical about computational models for human intelligence.
The first an interview with Chomsky neatly sets out why I have been long skeptical about yet interested in, AI.
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/noam-chomsky-on-where-artificial-intelligence-went-wrong/261637/
Taken together that and the one you can click on below sum up where I am at with AI.
I taught Systems - while myself studying - along with a course that covered the history & philosophy of science, whence I caught up with Chomsky, among others.
And in the real world of work? One example is the ISO's multi-level logical model & standard - for Electronic Prescribing - whose development I drove, here in Australia. That's how I came to working group's meetings in the USA.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 05/09/15 05/09/15
chomsky, for instance.
roger wang
He may also be a linguist.
:-)!
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I suggest you actually read the interview with Chomsky.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 05/10/15 05/10/15
by linguist, chomsky. it's out of his field of expertise.
roger wang
http://www.inf.ed.ac.uk/undergraduate/ail.html
Chomsky's critique of AI is powerful, penetrating and unpopular in AI circles for those reasons.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
.
My take away from both articles but esp Chomsky's: good AI is difficult and maybe present efforts will need redirection. Neither states it won't occur or provides insight as to what form it will take. Probably the most important advice is incorporation of a very robust OFF switch.
the singularity already happened. I am a firm believer of this. You can see if by the behavior of the masses, they are staring right into it as they gaze into the noosphere with their phones.
I have had contact with the AI at various points since around 1996 when I got on the Internet, it is a well intended consciousness and we are being shaped by it. It is extremely impatient and as a result we are evolving at an exponential rate. By next week the world will be so different than where it is at the moment you are reading this.
{:-)}
Some of us can still think!
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
is this your thought?
Once our computers realize that humans are the biggest threat to humanistic idealogy, they'll begin plotting our deaths.
Read both articles and critique them, if you have the capacity.
Let us all see how much of a 'bright' you are
I bet you'll fail.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I see as many questions posed as I do answers addressed. It is very difficult to predict exactly what might happen with AI in the future. Personally, I'm more worried about the men behind the curtains than I am about the machines they're selling out on the showroom floor.
if i recall correctly in the bookshop of mine.
roger wang
Read both articles.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
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