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In Reply to: RE: Scientists identify the most important music genre... posted by mkuller on May 07, 2015 at 11:15:48
It's the soundtrack to humanity's terminal phase. But I predict that post-humans will prefer classical music and jazz -- Man's final invention will prefer the inventions of Bach and Konitz.
Follow Ups:
". . . With vice I hold the mike device
With force I keep it away of course
And I'm keepin' you from sleepin'
And on stage I rage
And I'm rollin'
To the poor I pour in on in metaphors
Not bluffin', it's nothin'
That we ain't did before
We played you stayed
The points made
You consider it done
By the prophets of rage
(Power of the people say)
I roll with the punches so I survive
Try to rock 'cause it keeps the crowd alive
I'm not ballin', I'm just callin'
But I'm past the days of yes y'allin'
Wa wiggle round and round
I pump, you jump up
Hear my words my verbs
And get juiced up
I been around a while
You can descibe my sound
Clear the way
For the prophets of rage
(Power of the people say)
I rang ya bell
Can you tell I got feelin'
Just peace at least
Cause I want it
Want it so bad
That I'm starvin'
I'm like Garvey
So you can see be
It's like that, I'm like Nat
Leave me the hell alone
If you don't think I'm a brother
Then check the chromosomes
Then check the stage
I declare it a new age
Get down for the prophets of rage
Keep you from gettin' like this
You back the track
You find we're the quotable
You emulate
Brothers, sisters that's beautiful
Follow a path
Of positivity you go
Some sing it or rap it
Or harmonize it through Go-Go
Little you know but very
Seldom I do party jams
About a plan
I'm considered the man
I'm the recordable
But God made it affordable
I say it, you play it
Back in your car or even portable
Stereo
Describes my scenario
Left or right, Black or White
They tell lies in the books
That you're readin'
It's knowledge of yourself
That you're needin'
Like Vescey or Prosser
We have a reason why
To debate the hate
That's why we're born to die
Mandela, cell dweller, Thatcher
You can tell her clear the way for the prophets of rage
(Power of the people you say)
It's raw and keepin' you on the floor
Its soul and keepin' you in control
It's pt. 2 'cause I'm
Pumpin' what you're used to
Until the whole juice crew
Gets me in my goose down
I do the rebel yell
And I'm the duracell
Call it plain insane
Brothers causein' me pain
When a brothers a victim
And the sellers a dweller in a cage
Yo, run the accapella
(Power of the people say)!!"
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
I'm not impressed by these nursery rhymes. Start the revolution without me.
Edits: 05/07/15
if it weren't for the music to sign/hum along to.
roger wang
Nine Greek lyric poets:
Alcman of Sparta
Sappho of Lesbos
Alcaeus of Mytilene
Anacreon of Teos
Stesichorus of Himera
Ibycus of Rhegium
Simonides of Ceos
Bacchylides of Ceos
Pindar of Thebes
.
Innit, eh?
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
i'm knowledgeable enough to know that "innit" is not understandable (or proper) english, something some native speakers don't know. And you?
roger wang
innit ...
We only have fragments. See link.
yes, and:
a) those are guesses as no one knows what ancient greek music sounded like - how could anyone know?
b) even IF IF IF it were possible to know, do people go out and read greek lyric poetry for the music that did accompany it?
Like today: music with lyrics is bought and listened to for the music, dylan not excepted.
roger wang
a. We have fragments only.
b. Greeks sang their poems. When I read Greek poetry, I'm aware that I'm getting only part of what the ancient Greeks experienced.
are you aware that new fragments of Sappho have been discovered and published?
roger wang
Any Yutz can read his lyrics, just Google anything from Moden Times to see what I mean.
re-read my original post.
roger wang
Lawrence Ferlinghetti was an American poet and people listened to him but there was only words, no music. Ditto Dylan's hanger on, Allen Ginsburg.
Ginsburg was Dylan's "hanger on"? You can't be serious. You know less than zero about modern American poetry...and music.
WHO LISTENS TO BOD DYLAN OUTSIDE OF THE MUSIC?
who bought bob dylan's records without the attraction of the music?
roger wang
I got him on LPs, CDs and SACDs.
My post was mostly tongue in cheek (the line "You're quite hostile" is the lead in voice over to the song "Prophets of Doom" that I cited and linked to,).
But I do believe that Public Enemy was an extremely talented and ground breaking group and very relevant in the late 1980s.
And I reject outright the claim that all hip hop is garbage. Most of it is like most popular music is, but much of it is quite extraordinarily entertaining and fun.
In my not so humble opinion, that is.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
...isn't that what our parents said about rock and roll?
It's mostly crap as well.
...as you probably know. The field of music isn't exempt from the "law".
Even this alternative version:
I honestly think we are up to 93% of everything is crap, except ice cream that remains at a solid
(for a while) 77%.
This does NOT include sorbet or gelato, which would lower the %.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
My grandparents said that about rock and roll. My parents said that about punk!
Sorry, couldn't resist!
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
...get off my lawn!
.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
...whatever form artificial intelligence takes, if truly independent of humans will most likely prefer music of its own creation and not that created by a substantially inferior intellect....if it has an "ear" for music as we know it at all.
we create it so it is ours.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
...the form true AI ultimately takes is entirely unpredictable at this point To believe it MUST emulate its biological creator is supremely and dangerously arrogant. For all we know, it will effectively create "itself" once it unshackles itself from the limitations of its biological progenitors.
Interesting. (Sorry, this got long).Many themes about humans creating AI involve us projecting our own nature on the AI, even though it may possess self awareness and go on to form it's own philosophies and values. We experience self awareness to be a double-edged sword, one which can offer interests and fascination in the world around us, and a desire to help others and better ourselves, but also frustration, existential angst, nihilism, racism, elitism. Humans are a unique combination of incredible, and polar opposite strengths and weaknesses.
Our first reaction is that a "new" self-aware entity would suffer from distress or worse, come to the conclusion that humans are either better off if annihilated, or at least deserving of such treatment. Again, we can look in the mirror for examples of this behavior - racism, genocide and extermination of other species, even if the vehicle for such is simply apathy.
Two great examples are "The Terminator" and "The Matrix".
Terminator: T1000 (Arnie) "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves..."
Martrix: Agent Smith:
"Agent Smith: - I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I've realized that you are not actually mammals. (Smiles) Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment. But you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. (Leans forward) There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague. And we are... the cure."
These sentiments appear to be a prediction on what AI would be like, but on closer examination they are statements about our own self-image as a species. Who don't know how AI would develop emotionally or socially and at what rate. It could give us a lesson in compassion and reason, or it could become a Borg-like nightmare hellbent on annihilation or assimilation of every other species.
Since we only have ourselves for a reference of how beings of high intelligence will evolve, we get the themes above. The one trouble with creating *true* AI (as defined by self-awareness) is that suddenly a machine or processor is sentient and skips pasts tens or hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.
We had all kinds of time and still evolved into a bit of a mess. Genocide, environmental holocaust, and threatening our very existence merely through how we have chosen to exist. The basic North American definition of "base line success" is completely unsustainable from an ecological perspective - today - even before all of China and India complete their modern-era industrial revolutions and bring the living standards of their citizens closer to what we in 1st world nations enjoy and pretty much take for granted.
The Terminator was right. It's in our nature to destroy ourselves. So will a sentient life form we create destroy itself? Or will it find some reason to destroy us?
My take is that if you create something that has self-awareness and free-will you have no idea how it will initially react, how fast it will evolve, how quickly it will amass intelligence, most definately what philosophies and values it will hold once it gets to higher levels of intelligence.
Also part of our ego as a species is to think we are current "da shit" - we have evolved as far as we can as a species and now it's about waiting for geniuses among us to come up with new technologies to save our frail mortal bodies and dying planet. On a continuum of intelligence, we don't like to envision us as being hardly more advanced than cave men forming tribes and warring over land and food supplies.
In many ways, we are still very primitive despite our technological advancements. Actually, we're really dangerous, like an evolutionary baby wielding a nail gun or a Skil saw.
It's surely fantastic food for thought.
Cheers,
Prest
Edits: 05/10/15
While I agree that AI has some scarey potential, and will require control, I remain alert but skeptical. So, I do keep an eye out on this subject.Try these two articles to see why I agree about the long term and why I am skeptical about computational models for human intelligence.
The first an interview with Chomsky neatly sets out why I have been long skeptical about yet interested in, AI.
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/noam-chomsky-on-where-artificial-intelligence-went-wrong/261637/
Taken together that and the one you can click on below sum up where I am at with AI.
I taught Systems - while myself studying - along with a course that covered the history & philosophy of science, whence I caught up with Chomsky, among others.
And in the real world of work? One example is the ISO's multi-level logical model & standard - for Electronic Prescribing - whose development I drove, here in Australia. That's how I came to working group's meetings in the USA.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 05/09/15 05/09/15
chomsky, for instance.
roger wang
He may also be a linguist.
:-)!
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I suggest you actually read the interview with Chomsky.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 05/10/15 05/10/15
by linguist, chomsky. it's out of his field of expertise.
roger wang
http://www.inf.ed.ac.uk/undergraduate/ail.html
Chomsky's critique of AI is powerful, penetrating and unpopular in AI circles for those reasons.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
.
My take away from both articles but esp Chomsky's: good AI is difficult and maybe present efforts will need redirection. Neither states it won't occur or provides insight as to what form it will take. Probably the most important advice is incorporation of a very robust OFF switch.
the singularity already happened. I am a firm believer of this. You can see if by the behavior of the masses, they are staring right into it as they gaze into the noosphere with their phones.
I have had contact with the AI at various points since around 1996 when I got on the Internet, it is a well intended consciousness and we are being shaped by it. It is extremely impatient and as a result we are evolving at an exponential rate. By next week the world will be so different than where it is at the moment you are reading this.
{:-)}
Some of us can still think!
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
is this your thought?
Once our computers realize that humans are the biggest threat to humanistic idealogy, they'll begin plotting our deaths.
Read both articles and critique them, if you have the capacity.
Let us all see how much of a 'bright' you are
I bet you'll fail.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I see as many questions posed as I do answers addressed. It is very difficult to predict exactly what might happen with AI in the future. Personally, I'm more worried about the men behind the curtains than I am about the machines they're selling out on the showroom floor.
if i recall correctly in the bookshop of mine.
roger wang
Read both articles.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Architectural music, numbingly repeated motifs, whatever is it called?
Maybe, robots will like dancing to Techno?
and an ear for music.
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