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I bought an Allnic T1500 amp on Agon earlier this month. It was shipped in the original packaging by a UPS store from NJ to Seattle, fully insured. It arrived with a hole in the bottom corner and substantial damage to the amp (subchassis bent). I contacted the seller who refused my refund request and I processed a claim. UPS picked it up and did an inspection at their customer service center. They found no damage to the box, did not look inside and have now sent it back to NJ. Once again the seller has refused to refund my payment claiming he doesn't have the money to refund.
At this point the shipper will have my original payment plus the damaged unit, which might be repairable. Can a UPS claim be appealed?
Just to ice the cake, the seller turns out to be a convicted felon on the run from Missouri who might be extradited back so I will likely never see any money.
Follow Ups:
Well, there is a happy ending. The amp was eventually sent to RHB Sound who is the authorized Allnic repair shop. It turned out the only thin wrong with it wss blown 300b tubes and the circuit boards had come unscrewed from the top plate.
They just retightened the boards, put in new tubes and it tests like new. UPS paid for the whole thing.
Always be prepared to dispute what anyone else might have to say. Now that the box and the merchandise is gone you might be outta luck...
I don't know how many horror stories it will take for people to wise up, and avoid UPS like the plague. I know Fed-Ex is not perfect, but in all the years I've been buying and selling audio gear UPS usually ended up damaging shipments, while Fed-Ex almost never did. I only ship Fed-Ex ground-Home Delivery. The UPS guys are union protected, and it seems they could give a damn about the packages. Fed-Ex ground Home Delivery guys are independent contractors, and seem to care. My experience, YMMV.
Yes my experience differs. None of the parcel carriers are any better or any worse than the others. Those that want to think otherwise are kidding themselves.
They all damage packages on a daily basis. They all try their best to refuse claims.
Whether one shop is union or not is completely irrelevant.
My response had nothing to do with pro or con union.
Just a fact as to who damages the packages."Why would any union employee care if they do a good job or not?"
Seriously?
I've always taught my children to take pride in what they do and to do the absolute best they possibly can.
Edits: 03/29/15
You are the one that threw in the union comment. Must have been sort of meaning to comment no?
Great to give your children good ideals. Ultimately they will enter the real world and discover that many things mom and dad told them don't really hold up well in the real world.
My children ARE in the real world and are doing very well thank you. And what we taught them is holding up just fine. One of my sons is in a power plant union and very happy there.
One's hard work and dedication can and will get you a lot farther than an attitude of "Why would any union employee care if they do a good job or not"
Like I said, my response had nothing to do with pro or con union.
And still doesn't.
Just a fact as to who damages the packages.
By the way, you might want to reread the posts and see that you are mistaking me for hifinut.
It's not the union, it's management. Do you know these drivers are monitored down to the second. They have to deliver hundreds of packages per day. They are being tracked every second. Their jobs are on the line for the slightest deviation from company policy. It's not the union, it's the people who run the company. Good luck on getting UPS to pay out on a damaged package. Company policy is just don't pay.
The workers are the ones damaging the packages, not the people who run the company.
Edits: 03/29/15
Management creates the environment, holds all the cards. You cannot blame employees for environments created by management.
UPS management has a complete and utter contempt for their union employees. They remind their union workers on a daily basis what a piece of human garbage they really are. Just a wonderful environment created by management. Why would any union employee care if they do a good job or not? Does not matter if they do a good job they are still filth in the eyes of management.
I know of what I speak. I worked there for 3 years in the early 80's. An eye opening experience. I figured things must have changed over the decades. Nope. Walked in to the local UPS terminal several years ago to ship a package. Found a manager yelling at the clerk reminding him he was human slime, etc. All of this was playing out in front of a customer!
Easy to take a swipe at the employees or union workers. The problem with UPS is clearly a management issue. Just like most companies the problems are generally created at the management level. Many companies survive in spite of their management not because of management. UPS would be a perfect example.
WELL SAID.....i i Hcw found the workers very helpful in my experience and have helped me pack heavy equipment
and aided once in a claim.
Actually, this is the first instance of equipment damage I have experienced through any carrier and I have been doing this for 50 years.
As I see it, I was sold a working piece of equipment and I received a non-working unit. Either it was packed properly and UPS damaged it or it was not packed properly and the seller/UPS Store is liable. I suspect that the seller packed it himself since it was in the original Allnic shipping cartons and then dropped it at the UPS Store.
The amp is supposed to be back at the UPS Store Wednesday so I will wait until then to hear what the seller intends to do. Since the amp is certainly DOA, regardless of UPS' ridiculous "no external damage" assessment, one would expect the UPS Store to file an appeal but who knows.
I will be filing today a New Jersey Consumer and BBB complaint against the UPS Store and I have filed a small claims case in Seattle against the local UPS office. The small claims may be pointless but it's only $20 to file and you can do it by mail.
Well, the amp has made it back to the UPS Store. Here is an email I just got from the seller, Steve Petrocelli (petro1511):
"So they are calling in a fraud/security inspector. To open the box because they say the hole in the box is not the same as your pictures. And now the security guy has to open the box. And they also say you wanted the money for the claim and the amp. The inspector would be there end of the week they will call me. And BTW they don't want to deal with you anymore. Guy will open box. Inspect amp and then we go from there. You've done enough, I will deal with them and try to get a total loss claim."
It appears that UPS is trying to claim that I deliberately damaged the amp myself and fabricated a hole in the box. Gets better all the time.
Still no UPS inspection so I called them. They told me there will be no more inspections, they are finished.
So, now I need to wait out all of my consumer complaints and small claims cases. May just have to write this off. I also recommend you stay away from Care Audio in NJ as I contacted them before I bought the amp and they vouched for the seller then and still feel he is a "stand up guy."
My local UPS Store is great. Reviews on Yelp testify to that. Recently, I went there to send a package around 12noon and saw literally 200 packages ready to go out. I exclaimed to the owner that they must be the busiest UPS Store in the nation. His response was that UPS tells him on an almost daily basis is that they don't meet standards and are in danger of losing their franchise. He was really pissed off about their treatment of him.
I never do business with anyone in New Jersey.
And I'm careful about people in Florida.
"Familiarity breeds contempt, and children."
-Mark Twain
Thanks a lot.
I live in New Jersey.
....when you said it arrived with a hole in it?
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
Pretty amazing huh. I never even heard from UPS directly on the damage claim. I called the UPS Store and they told me that UPS denied the claim with "no visible external damage"and sent it back to New Jersey. I am not sure what size hole the box would need to have to be considered damaged by UPS.
I would think you can win an appeal based on the evident hole in the box. But again, you would have to wrestle the claim money back from the seller. Might be worth a try.
Man, that is some story.
Even if you were to pursue UPS and challenge the claim and won, the shipper gets the claim money.
Not good.
I had UPS come to my home once to inspect a damaged package and another time I brought a damaged package directly to a UPS facility for them to do their inspection. But both times refused to let them (UPS) take possession of the package. I kept them until the seller and myself agreed on a solution.
I know this doesn't help your situation, but maybe something to think about if it ever happens again.
Also, who packaged the shipment? If the UPS Store did the packaging, they probably will pay the claim to the seller; but then you are at his mercy.
Back in Nov. 2014 I sold a pre-amp and then asked the seller which shipper he preferred(the agreement was 'buyer paid shipping'). He choose UPS and I was hesitant because of stories, but that's what he choose. So I called to get a quote from UPS so I could give him a correct price and I agreed to pay insurance. I was going to pack it myself but the UPS store advised me that if I brought the piece and let them package it they guaranteed it would arrive safely. To make a long story I let them pack it along with eight tubes and all went fine, the buyer thanked me for the excellent packing job.
I always give the buyer the option to pick the carrier some like USPS better etc.
Bob
Did you buy this from Care Audio?
The original buyer got it from Care. Is there a history here?
To the best of my knowledge, the UPS Stores are franchised stores that are associated with, but not officially a part of, UPS.
Insurance bought from them is not insurance bought from UPS, but from the UPS Store itself.
It is rare that I have heard of anyone getting paid for insurance bought from a UPS Store.Whenever I ship something via UPS, I ALWAYS take it directly to a UPS Customer Center.
(This is an official UPS station, which is where the freight trucks pick up and drop off packages, before they go onto the local delivery vans.)My two cents worth.
(Live and learn.)PS I find it is cheaper to ship when packages are dropped off at a UPS Customer Center versus A UPS Store too!
Edits: 03/26/15 03/26/15
So, if the UPS Store is the shipper of record and they carry the insurance could they be sued in small claims rather than the seller?
Shipping claims are hard to challenge - they are based upon what the "shipper of Record" claimed on the original Bill Of Ladding. No Matter how you can verify the value of the unit - if the shipper defined the value, they company will pay no more than that value.
Additionally it will be paid to the shipper, not the ultimate consignee...
Happy Listening
The shipper did "value" it for what I paid so that part is not a problem. I am just amazed that UPS claimed no box damage with a hole about 6" wide.
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