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i'd like to recommend some decent product brands in the $400 to 600 range (per component) to non-audiophile people. i see in the pre-amp section of the Asylum, that NAD has been shown to be rather poor in parts (exterior features).
other brands and models to beware (or just Aware) of?
thanks for interest.
roger wang
Follow Ups:
I would say Marantz, Marantz, Marantz (as equipment to select, not avoid, that is).However, I have zilch experience with such equipment ;-)
I have some Panasonic mid-fi equipment which I like very much, but they seem to be exiting the Mid-Fi space, or so it seems.
I would say the usual suspects. If NAD floats their boat, I see nothing wrong with that manufacturer per se, but the Japanese companies do have a long history of providing quality merchandise at competitive prices.
Emotiva may be a better choice for budding audiophiles, though. I think they target a younger audience according to their styling, which I don't particularly care for.
Edits: 03/24/15
If they don't measure up in sound quality to mid-fi that makes them lo-fi in my book...regardless of the price.
not if the brand is identified and marketed as 'mid-fi' and that is what i am trying to avoid. anyway, what self-respecting manufacturer calls itself low-fi?? (if they exist, i praise them on their honesty and modesty).
thanks for interest.
like your postings.
roger wang
Please identify some gear that is actively being marketed as "mid-fi". Inquiring minds would like to know.
No manufacturer or reseller I'm aware of would openly advertise their "affordable quality" gear as being "mid-fi" because doing so might degrade market value.
and i KNOW i have heard mid-fi brands called mid-fi at least by dealers; the real question is what has been identified as low-fi?, a question not considered by you, apparently.
thanks for interest.
roger wang
*The question* has indeed been considered by me. It is you who seems to have not given it it's due consideration.What a dealer or anyone else might say "off the cuff" probably has very little to do with what the manufacturer or the marketeer would say (or wish to be said) about their products. IMO.
"Midfi" might be a term used mostly by audiophile consumers, not marketeers or manufacturers. The words "low-fi, "mid-fi", and "hi-fi" all sound too purely subjective, so I think that most official people would tout other things that are unrelated to the purely subjective evaluation - things like measurements and physical features, rather than names. If they use those terms at all they would probably be used half-jokingly, in reference to other people's products, not their own.
Edits: 03/21/15 03/21/15
my posting wasn't meant to be a 'manufacturer-approved' label just what audiophiles would call mid-fi and the brands that don't meet good quality for the 400 to 600 dollar range i suggested.
by the way, supposedly objective measurements could be considered high-low-middle quality too, no?
thanks for interest.
roger wang
Classifying gear by measurements alone simply doesn't work.It helps if there is some sort of consensus among a group of audiophiles, but you can see what little help that is. Ultimately, we all have to decide for ourselves what "Fi" really is and how much it means to us.
Edits: 03/21/15
What people really need to know is what the final objective is? Is this a 2 ch or multichannel system? How big is the room? What is the primary source going to be?
I understand the rest of your question just fine, but there is a little more info needed to make recommendations.
I firmly believe that this price point of around $500 is becoming a great place to find incredible value in this hobby. You can build a great system as long as you are looking in the right place.
but what i really wanted to know and cannot find out on this Asylum is what brands of mid-fi equipment (in inmate's own set-up is found below-par in performance or reliability.
luckily i happened to peruse the pre-amp board and the day i looked saw two postings together that gave a thumbs-down to the company, NAD. if i had not looked there at that time, i would not have known and might have picked one up for a modest system.
i want a brand to be wary of regardless of component (or at least what model of what component didn't give the audiophile user what was expected at that price or in comparison to other mid-fi and same-priced brands).
sometimes, i feel i'm dealing with women and all the extra complications.
roger wang
Wow, another area of your life you have problems with communication in.
THERE'S a surprise!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
and soulfood in mind. i'm not kidding.
but calling you complicated was a compliment.
roger wang
Say what you mean (concede) to others in this thread and cease with that creepy stuff.
NAD is not a bad brand, they have been around for decades and to take something like the D 3020 off of your list because you read something bad would be a mistake in my opinion.
I do believe that if you asked for specific suggestions at a given price point with a little more context at what the end game was you would get a much better response.
Good luck
.
Buy a 400 dollar 7 channel receiver and you'll hear what low-fi sounds like.
They can actually sound pretty good.
"it ain't necessarily so" - George Gershwin.
The Marantz NR-1405 mentioned previously in this thread is a case in point. Will it drive low impedance or highly reactive loudspeakers to lease-breaking levels with all channels driven? Certainly not? Can it serve as a quality anchor for a modest home theater or music system? Absolutely. Matched with appropriate loudspeaker and supported by a decent subwoofer, the little Marantz can sound quite good. My son's does.
not asking what low-fi sounds like.
roger wang
I guess we all have different definitions of mid-fi. I currently don't have a top end system and I live in the mid-fi range, 95% of my systems have been mid-fi. I don't think your price range (400-600) gets you into mid-fi. I have a NAD 165BEE pre-amp in one of my systems, I guess they sell for around 1000 bucks, it's definitely a mid-fi product. As are most under a thousand dollar pre-amps. At your budget, it will be a challenge to get into mid-fi.
I'm not even sure what you are asking for? Products that suck? That might be a long list. Perhaps it would be easier if you tell us what you are looking for.
and two points: it is possible to get decent to good quality in the 4 to 6 hundred dollar price range per component & what i'm looking for is simply what has been overrated and underperforming in that area.
roger wang
There is a wide range of quality affordable equipment available today. Cambridge Audio, Parasound, Emotiva and others make an array of affordable electronics that offer fine value in or near the $400-600 price range. An audio/video receiver is a viable option for those considering home theater or desiring video switching capability. Marantz is a favorite of mine and offers a number of compact (e.g NR-1405) and full size (e.g. SR-5009) models with good performance and build quality. Onkyo stereo and A/V receivers offer good amplification and also merit consideration. The only solid recommendation for a BluRay player is the Oppo BDP-103. It is an excellent choice with a wide array of useful features. At $500, it really has no competition and is worth every cent.
My strongest recommendation for the casual listener is to purchase the best loudspeakers possible within the budget constraints and then choose appropriate amplification. The most cost effective full-range loudspeaker system is often a satellite/subwoofer combination. Relieving the amplifier of the low bass stretches the power available and improves performance in variety of ways. A good example is the Hsu Research "Value 2" system consisting of two HB-1 Mk. II satellites and a single STF-2 subwoofer. Matched with a modest stereo receiver (e.g Onkyo TX-8020) and appropriate speaker stands, it will run about $800 and can handily outperform many far more expensive stereo systems.
Consider offering advice regarding loudspeaker placement and room acoustics, if possible. This can make or break sound quality and is almost universally overlooked by beginners and is usually far more helpful than simply suggesting a list of equipment.
I will second the Cambridge Audio gear.
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It was my understanding that 'mid-fi' surfaced as threshold to high-end or not being fit for hobbyist consumption. Note, I'm not responsible for any of this confusion. :^)
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I think I understand the intent of what you are asking and it is not wrong, bad or otherwise; guess the funny bones are just over exposed today.
I like the idea of some feedback of negative experiences related to equipment. There is a load of I love this.or that or you should get this or that but almost a complete lack of discourse related to units that fail to please and why. While the $ spread is quite narrow, it likely is a pretty good average range for a starting place.
It would be nice to know that xyz receiver, model abc123, has a tuner okay for local broadcasts but seems less sensitive ago the lower end of the spectrum than higher up and when used on a set of the speakers with a 4 ohm rating, it did or did not smoke. I do see some of this related to new turntables and while speakers have a wide acceptances few open new ones up to show how good or bad the components are. It would also be nice to have the good old ftc power ratings back.
I used to see non public reviews of new equipment that included information such as if the components included the industrial part numbers or only the equipment maker's house number, if a sm was available, it it included sufficient information to do a repair by an average tech, if there were custom parts such as a person and if so, if the schematic contain the information to build a discrete parts replacement. Also, an analysis of heat flow and buildup, dust protection and if repair difficulty was easy or impossible.
It would be helpful to have an idea of what to stay away from.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
"I think I understand the intent of what you are asking and it is not wrong, bad or otherwise; guess the funny bones are just over exposed today."
LOL So, I guess you have no recommendations whatsoever.
how can you be so obtuse?
roger wang
"it's not about recommendations how can you be so obtuse?"
That's not nice.
From your original post:
"i'd like to recommend some decent product brands in the $400 to 600 range (per component) to non-audiophile people."
Correct me if I'm wrong-You know little or nothing about decent product brands. As such, you want recommendations so you can recommend to folks that considerably less than you.
"folks that considerably less than you" is incomplete as a thought.
nothing new there.
roger wang
It should have been: As such, you want recommendations so you can recommend to folks that KNOW considerably less than you.
If it's "below average" in quality, then it's "low-fi", not "mid-fi".... [-;
Instead of asking the community about products that might be good values in that price range, you want the stinkers? If you're going to recommend something to someone, why not recommend something good, rather than only (and literally) "not bad"?
now on to the matter at hand - well, i don't want my friends or acquaintances to be misled and make mistaken purchases. seems better
to miss out on a good deal than land on a bad one, no?
by the way, some would say 'not bad' is good enough....
roger wang
From your original post:
"that NAD has been shown to be rather poor in parts (exterior features).
other brands and models to beware (or just Aware) of?"
Without going into details, you're wearing cluelessness on you sleeves. Tell your "friends or acquaintances (???)", to purchase what you own.
.
nt
The millions around the world that eat at McDonald's daily?
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I'd hate to think what hi-fi (or low-fi) are.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
the brand names in that price category and if so many are hateful to consider, give me some names.
roger wang
Roger-
with so much mass-junk from china, in this day and time, you will be hard pressed to find any decent mid-fi gear.
The remedy: buy used gear from the 1990's w/ the likes of NAD, Rotel, Pioneer Elite, Denon, Sony ES for openers.
fantja-
i believe there is a way out in the price range i've stated.
two brands come to mind.
roger wang
since they aren't audiophiles, they won't care and it will likely be "better sound" than they are used to.
Basically it's a fruitless question that is a labyrinth of frustration and derision as you've no doubt already noticed...
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Well you seem to do derision quite well.
"i'd like to recommend some decent product brands in the $400 to 600 range (per component) to non-audiophile people."
If you don't get it, avoid making recommendations.
Mid fi, especially Japanese 1970s mid fi, is considered to be the greatest sound reproducing equipment ever made, exceeded only by even older TV/radio consoles and still older table radios, by the vintage guys
I'm not making that up.
Jump on over to the Vintage board, and see for yourself.
Just last week, one of the "experts" proclaimed that a guy should leave work to run out and buy some disgarded, insect-infested radio console. I quote:
> > That is a give-a-way. Someone needs to skip work and grab this FAST!!!!!!
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada < <
.
It only lacks the human element, other than the Bose inference.
nt
Which is why the original question doesn't make a lot of sense.
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