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108.131.83.120
...what, if any would be different?
"Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn't. - Charles Bukowski
Follow Ups:
Speakers: Klipsch Cornwall or Quad ESL63 (Rebuilt)
Amp: DiaLogue Premium Integrated Amplifier (HP if Quad)
Turntable: SOTA Sapphire w/Jelco 750E tonearm + Arche headshell
Phono Preamp: EAR 834P
Silverdisc/DAC: Marantz SA-11S3
Streamer: Sonos or Bluesound
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
Edits: 03/05/15
Yep, I agree - simple is better!
"Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn't. - Charles Bukowski
Close n' Play with Goodwill records and call it good.
I have good records and I enjoyed building and learning to build better gear but, to start again, no. My hearing is worse and I am older.
Hi, Eldragon,
I'm not sure that it's a question that can be answered because without having spent all the time and money I did to get where I'm at, I wouldn't know what it was I wanted. As it is, I ended up with something very close to my "dream" stereo, as envisioned way back when. In many ways it's much nicer than what I figured I'd end up with.
Could I have spent less money and taken less time? Certainly, but I wouldn't have had the experience of trying different source components and amplification and speakers. That time and money helped me in choosing the stereo system I now enjoy.
Would I have an even "nicer" stereo if I'd spent the same amount of money on just one system? Certainly, but I'm not sure I'd be any happier with the sound or enjoy it any more than I already do. In some ways I probably enjoy what I have now even more because of the time and money spent on getting here.
Final answer: I wouldn't want to rebuild my stereo. If I HAD to rebuild it I would probably spend less on the turntable, the same on the cartridge and phono stage, more on the CD player/DAC, more on the amplifier, the same on the speakers, and keep just about everything else. Would it be different? No doubt, but as I said before, I'm not sure it would be an improvement.
Regards,
Tom
Thanks Tom, I disagree, pretty cool answer. I am 'chasing' my first setup, I always keep improving to the point of total disillusionment...But I learned, valuable but costly lesson.
"Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn't. - Charles Bukowski
Adapting incrementally in a world of risk and uncertainty is usually a less costly process than betting everything on a long term plan that turns out to be based on mistaken assumptions and wrong projections of the future.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
.
What other brands of amps out there besides DNM eschew the use of metallic materials for chassis?
As a grounded metal case acts as a Faraday shield.
Regards,
Andy
...upstream from the start of information retrieval..... where operating voltages are even more minuscule.
Sure, RFI can 'pollute' the signals passing along the exposed headshell wires but if all the other wiring is shielded and the cases are shielded, not much more RFI can get in.
Whereas if a phono case is wooden, while it might look great ... it is allowing RFI to enter. I have heard of people lining the inside surfaces of a wooden box with very thin copper sheet ... but that is a fair bit of work and introduces metal, anyway.
Regards,
Andy
Well, think about this: That very metal case also keeps the RF from escaping so once in it can bounce around and have many more chances of being detected by a susceptible node than if it were just passing through.
The main thing that shielding does for you on audio stuff like preamps is to keep the E-field hum that your bod picks up from the house wiring from coupling into High-Z nodes in the amplifier when you reach out to adjust it. It's usually more of a problem with tubes since they tend to be higher impedance devices than transistors. But it takes very little to stop it on say a breadboard, if you just mount the controls on small pieces of metal screwed to the board and ground them at a single point, say where the minus power comes in that will do the trick.
If you have an actual ether-borne RFI problem in home entertainment stuff it's usually energy coming in on the speaker cables and getting detected by the output bugs or crap coming in on the power line and detected by the power supply rectifiers. The cure is to add RF common mode impedance to your power and/or speaker cables with Z-beads. They have to be applied correctly however: they must be used only where your signal currents are differential and both sides have to go through the same path. Fortunately your speaker cables and power cord (if it doesn't have a ground wire) meet that requirement.
Radio Rick
I will try a wooden case for the next build of my 'Muse' phono stage. :-))
Regards,
Andy
....
Looks like higher powered amps will always need metallic heat sinks of some sorts.
Hence, my need for high efficiency speakers to match flea watts amps....
I would want an 2 additional sets of speakers in addition to my big old ProAcs to change up with my mood/type of music: 1) Magnapans (had SMGas) Or Electrostats and 2) Ohms. I really like the idea of having several sets of speakers to swap.Nice to have - A Cary SLP-05 to mate with my Cary amp.
Edits: 03/03/15 03/03/15
I would've spent more time choosing speakers and building the gear around them. I have had a lot of fun (cough,cough)trying all kinds of gear, but I could have saved myself time, dollars and trouble if I'd have figured out the speakers first. (Probably would have sold them and started over anyway, but it was a good thought!)
Alternate #1: I would have moved to a house with a dedicated listening room of appropriate size and space for a serious system and a great wine and bourbon bar.
Alternate #2: I would win the lottery, build a castle with a humongous listening room (or three) and buy the most expensive audio jewelry in the world; then invite all my AA friends over to crank up the RnR! ;)
I'd surely consider...- A nicer integrated amp or receiver. Pass Labs, or a hybrid tube design like the Magnum Dynalab MD209 or MD309.
- CEC belt drive CDP
- Grace Design M920 or M905
- Grand Prix Audio Monaco direct drive turntable and a Pass Labs XP phono stage.
- Nice full range ribbon hybrid speakers. A nice used pair of top of the line VMPS towers, perhaps. Janszen zA2.1 electrostatic tower speakers also look mighty interesting.
- Many pairs of headphones. A Donald North Audio Stratus headphone amplifier.
- A nicer listening room.
Edits: 03/03/15 03/03/15 03/04/15
Whatever models would be in my budget.
One sure thing I would build a system for no more than 10K that would sound great. Mostly used and with an integrated amplifier like the Osiris. Oh shit I just blew almost my entire budget!
Is this just a way of expressing what we regret about our current systems?
* I'd start with speakers that weren't so damn hard to set up on my thick carpet in my asymmetrical room, that didn't require a special high-pass filter, didn't have subwoofer amps, and that could take regular spades.
* Find a really good solid state integrated or pre-amp. My current tube pre requires retubing way too often.
* I'd try to be more patient about finding the right gear.
Buy completely refurbished ESL57s (two pairs), amps and tubes to suit and head on til morning.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
I have to admit that I haven't had buy, sell, buy, sell to achieve what I have now. My original system comprised of Snell type E's (first iteration), VTL ST85 and 2.5 pre-amp. This combo was not the end all, but was very nice and super listenable. It was just a mini version of what I have now.
...I'd get similar equipment, just upgrade it to newer models.
Most of my gear is about 15 years old.
A massive rebuild and some extensive treatment of my room ,
A set of vivid audio G1's and a devialet amp
Rodney Gold
.....and would not change anything I now have. I'm at the end of my particular system and room development journey. just enjoying the music now and not thinking much about gear and such.i do miss the 'hunt' for new gear and room changes somewhat. it was a fun process.
i would have liked to have learned some stuff sooner and less painfully; which would have saved me some time, money, and frustration. but getting humbled is part of learning.
I make no claims of any ultimate attainment of anything; I'm simply where I wanted to be when I started. there is a slight bittersweet aspect to it.
mikel
Edits: 03/02/15 03/02/15
Build a room for live chamber or jazz performance.
:)
.....at the bottom of the hill about 5 minutes away from my home is a small jazz club, Boxley's. they have live jazz every night of the week at 7pm and pretty good food, too.I can go there for dinner, listen for 30 minutes, then be listening in my room 5-10 minutes later.
it's just close enough, and just far enough away.
even though I live in the mountains on 5 acres i'm lucky to have such a music venue so close and always there to take advantage of daily when I need to scratch my live music itch. and I do use it for ear calibration from time to time.
i'd say I have the best of both worlds.
mikel
Edits: 03/03/15 03/03/15 03/03/15
can be slowly ameliorated with that extra time gained getting to listen to more
music on one of the most amazing set-ups/rooms 'round these parts.
Nice to reach comfort zone in the journey to where the music is everything
and the equipment just does what it should.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
thanks for the kind words.
I do pinch myself from time to time at my good fortune and never take it for granted.....since it required sacrifice and considerable life decisions to get to this spot.
cheers,
mikel
some of those 'life decisions' sacrificed but if personal or vulnerable, feel free to pass on the question.
thanks for interest.
roger wang.
sure.10 years ago my wife and I were going to down size our home, the kids were moved out, etc, etc......instead we purchased a larger home on 5 acres because I fell in love with the barn as the future home of my current dedicated audio room. so I spent more money on the home and then invested a good sum to build the room.
over the years I've pursued ultimate performance in my system as well as acquiring lots of music.....in addition to the home and room investements.
so my decisions, supported by my wonderful wife, has likely delayed my retirement by 5+ years and certainly changed my lifestyle as far as what I've chosen to do with my disposable income.
I'm not complaining as I'm a big boy and made these decisions with my eyes open and understanding the consequences. but no doubt I've traded some degree of greater financial independence for indulging my audio/music passion. I'm not a rich guy who can do it all; I'm just a working guy who is all-in in this hobby. which pays me back dividends of enjoyment daily.
no different than buying a sailboat, or Ferrari, summer home, or traveling. an extreme in one direction can reduce one's other life choices. I work 6 days a week and don't have time for some pass times and passions, so audio has fit into my lifestyle very well. I can and do do it every morning and evening, which is more than can be said for most passions.
no regrets.
others with much more (or less) means might have invested much less resources. we all have choices and then have to live out the consequences in our quests for happiness.
mikel
Edits: 03/04/15 03/04/15 03/04/15 03/04/15
Mike--Thanks for sharing. It was very well said and demonstrates your passion for our hobby. Always loved following the evolution of your room and system.
.
a little short on cash, as I've said before, I'll take one of those A80s off your hands. (Or the Ampex ATR.)
:)
Let's just say I need a man cave :)
but I'd do it at half of $$$ to get here.
I'd probably look for active loudspeakers which were line sources.
Vbr,
Sam
(nt)
Wow, you are almost as cynical as I am!
Have some here asked you to also leave this site?
Having been an insider for many years, I think your cynicism is probably built on a solid foundation.
Maybe a "tell-all book" from you will see the light of day in the not too distant future?
OTH maybe there isn't that much to tell about the world of audio that would be of interest outside of a small circle of friends?
At any rate I enjoy your extra dry comments posted here.
All the best!
Really IMO the amp should cost at least double or more the line stage. But these are hard economic times. So I feel the $84K amp was a realistic sacrifice.
After all, we need to allot at least another $20K+ for cables the month after that.
More Sam!
.
(nt)
.
You should go to Head Fi ... just read lots of posts ... not everyone buying up overpriced stuff - those are the folk/kids responsible for excellent dacs that make even $2k fight hard for justification, beyond the normal audiophile/press bs anyway.
They're younger, quite a lot in many cases
Why so cheap?
"If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad; if it measures bad and sounds good, you have measured the wrong thing."
- Daniel R. von Recklinghausen
....amp, preamp, headphone amp and remote volume controller.
One box instead of four. I like the sounds of that.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I downsized my system and want to take it further - but I'm not willing to give up the remotes! ;-)
Had separates but now I have an integrated amp. What I really need is an integrated amp with an excellent built-in DAC.... that isn't crazy expensive.
The current setup:
Mac Mini > Oppo HA-1 DAC/Headphone Amp > ARC VSi60 tube integrated > Tannoy Definition D500 Speakers
Accessories:
iPad Remote Control. ARC VSi-60 Remote Control. Oppo HA-1 Remote Control
I obviously will not give up the remotes! ;-)
.
"Familiarity breeds contempt, and children."
-Mark Twain
My LFD LE V integrated lacks a remote and a headphone jack. All it offers is $54,000 sound for around $4,000. I also love my SET setup with Sun Audio SV-2A3.
Im not particularly hip to allot of the new audio products out there. Its all interesting stuff tho. Just dont get the chance these days. Also much seems pie in the sky...
However this design is great IMO. To each their own on class AB or D. Needed watts for ones use. So on... But for those in the 50 watt range this sure seems like a well made, and in the scope of new high end audio, reasonably priced offering.
I couldnt find much technical info on the unit via the net. Looks like it and versions of, have been around for some time. I cant say if this pic I found via the net is the current version. Im guessing a IV? But it sure is lovely on the inside. You dont see many designers taking the approach of an array of PS caps VS large counterparts. I know many feel the array offers advantages. Faster charge/discharge cycles if I remember correctly. I believe I read Tesla motors took that approach in the battery design too. Not sure if they still do. Plus custom built pots. A super sturdy chassis. Nice.
I was reminded of the NAD 3020 in seeing this. Might explain the 3020's strong fan base.
Sorry Im not well read on your experiences. But may I ask, what speakers do you use with your Sun amp? Also this LVD?
You seem like a well reasoned man Sam. Its nice to see that in this hobby. I think I may have to read more of your stuff. :)
Enjoy your additional free time. Taking time to smell the roses in life is sadly lost on many.
You made me realize that "Pie in the Sky" would be a great name for a line of audio equipment!
Cuz Im not that kind of guy ;)
But mainly because Im guessing allot of folks here and in the audio hobby would say, someone actually used that?!? ;-)
That picture looks like an LFD LE IV.
I have the LE V driving a pair of the new Harbeth Super HL5 + speakers.
When I have the Sun Audio SV 2A3 in my other, listening room system it is usually driving a pair of the new Triangle Titus (latest model) loudspeakers.
The Sun/Triangle combination is extraordinarily alive.
Those Triangle Titus seem like great speakers that have happy owners. Wonderful value.
Same with everything you've mentioned.
Enjoy
...is pretty much what I suspected when started the thread, the most seasoned hobbyist would 'go back to' if given the opportunity.
"Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn't. - Charles Bukowski
I have to say I am pretty happy with the systems that I have -
Could I improve - yes, what would I change -
Not sure - I still have not solved the 'digital domain' there has to be a better solution out there - I just have not figured it out-
I would like a better system for the Quads - but that is almost in place-
what I really need is a better house for the system!
Happy listening
… Get divorced before they started building up a new system.
Me, I wouldn't do anything different. It is always a learning process and that is part of the enjoyment, for me at least.
Smile
Sox
.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I was trying to think of a way to weave that topic into this one, but you beat me to it. :-)
I'm happy with my three systems, but they do evolve over time. Not rapidly, but not at a glacier pace either. Need to update my system profiles actually.
The gearhead side of me sometimes thinks it would be fun to start from the ground up at times, but really my systems are where I want them now . . . for the most part. Now if I had another room for another system, then I could have fun!
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Probably would do the "100 dB Club" system again.... I think the main system would have used different (more efficient) speakers, and maybe different amplification.
The hard part would be that Don Allen has retired from the amp building business, I'd have to buy used. Same goes for the Eminence coax drivers, and hiring a cabinet maker to build the speakers.
Aside from maybe a DSD DAC (which I'd audition), I'd keep my sources the same as well.
If there was chance to build a new system from the ground up again I would probably go a totally different route than what I have now. Not that I don't care for my system, just that I've had very high efficient speakers with the low watt SET tube gear for some 35 years or so and always thought about the Maggie 3.7 with high power solid state amp for something different. I was blown away listening to my son's little Maggie MMG's and could imagine what the 3.7's can do.
OP-
actually, I am doing this very thing, re-building s system from the ground up. I am taking my time, listening, listening and listening to much gear. At this juncture, I will say, I have found my reference loudspeakers via Thiel. I still have to sort-out the electronics.
Over the last 2 years I have made great strides from whence I began this quest.
I am pleased with the trajectory and results.
The greatest impediment to advancing an audiophile system is the audiophile.
I did build my own house. And wired it too. I ran 3 sets of speaker wires between opposing walls in both the living room and media room. And I ran an RCA cable from the computer site to my living room stereo site.
After a several year period of burnout, decided to give it another go.
This time around, I decided not to go nuts on cables.
I spent a lot more on the speakers and source and preampfification this time - my prior system prioritized amplification, in terms of expense.
I paid attention to looks and tried to integrate the stereo better into our home.
The biggest difference - vinyl only. By focusing on a single source, I think it was easier to match components and stay within budget without too much compromise.
So far, so good.
I appreciate the comments.
mbnx01 - Yep! It's an Exposure 2010s2. I'm feeding it with a VPI Classic II/Dynavector 20x2L/Sutherland 20/20 and the speakers are Harbeth SHL5plus. The Exposure is a great amp - neutral but not analytical. British in the best sense, I think.
The SHL5+ speakers are incredible, BTW. Harbeth has evolved their sound w/the Monitor 30.1 and the new SHL5+. They are among the best speakers I've heard.
It's been fun getting back into it. Having been through this dog and pony show before, it was helpful to know the boundaries of where diminishing returns usually kicks in.
Except for the table, I bought all the gear through Gene Rubin. I can't recommend him highly enough - he's a good resource for no bullshit high end.
Road trip!
I'm as drawn to the room in general as I am to your gorgeous system. Minimalist in quantity, but each piece is high end and seems very well matched.
So, can we come over? Tomorrow's not good, but maybe Wednesday? Heh, heh.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
What an incredibly clean room and clutter free setup! Very nice indeed.
,
I have one in my second system running a pair of Spendors.
It's an amazing amp. It's so close to my separates at half the cost.
If I were to do it over again I'd probably just get the Exposure and a pair of Magnepans.
"Familiarity breeds contempt, and children."
-Mark Twain
...that's pretty darn elegant.
Very well done.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Beautiful pic!
What a beautiful-looking system! Love that Corbu chair!
Congratulations!
Looks great!
...have listened to Maggies....that affected just about every other decision I made for years to get me where I am now. I've said before: if you like Maggies, you're in for a potentially long, but sonically amazing road.
I have enough issues with the current system that this question makes me question what I'm doing RIGHT NOW, never mind if I started all over again!
Cheers,
Dman
Analog Junkie
nt
Bliss!
Jay, in all your posts I have not expressed agreement with you, your system looks awesome and must be truly mesmerizing! Congratulations!
I'd check these if I were in Florida.
Here are photos of Tannoy speakers in Nightbird Recording Studios, and the same speakers in my home.
nt
24 watts per channel
nt
Similar to mine.
Except I would convince them to let me work with them on the cabinets and have the front panel French-Polished Western Cedar like a classical guitar, the the rest Coca-Cola Brown stain or paint, also like a classical guitar.
WNTL?
OR, the same sources, but Vivid V-1.5s driven by Luxman's M600-A Class A 30Wpc amp.
More money, that.
I assume the question assumes real-world, own-money, not a fantasy game.
ATB,
JM
John , I thought you liked the Grace M905 better than the M920 ?
maplegrovemusic
nt
jm
I would, build a system that brings back my memories of listing to records when I was young. I would skip listening to high price equipment.
I had a stereotech receiver and speakers with a Dual turntable and grado cart. My father had an all Mc system with a thorens tt.
I would stick to mid fi that has a good rock in roll sound. As I grew up in the 60's, 70's and 80's and listen to 90% classic rock.
I have a bedroom system, ADS L910 speakers, Nad 7020 Receiver and old dual 1219 turntable with a Stanton cartridge. I love this system.
There are times I want to sell my high end system and get a pr of Vandersteen 3's with the big Nad integrated and a simple VPI or Lynn turntable from the 80's
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