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In Reply to: RE: His Amazing Randiness posted by geoffkait on February 21, 2015 at 13:41:56
The test has to be agreed to by both sides. It was going to be done at wellfed's place. They had agreed to a test but wellfed kept wanting to change things till they got tired of it.
Follow Ups:
Wellfed wanted to give himself the best chance of success, that's why he wanted to use CDs that had been ready been treated by himself rather than CDs right out of the box as JREF wanted to do. If you were an audiophile you'd understand. But since you're not...Besides, how many months did these "negotiations" go on? Talk about brow beating. It's no wonder nobody even won any money from Randi.
Cheers
Edits: 02/24/15 02/24/15
Of course he wanted to give himself the best chance. Unfortunately, modifying the CDs would introduce another variable into the mix, and one which was not controlled. Even if he were successful, how would anyone know what made the audible change?
I think a big thing was that he could not come up with a date for the text that he could stick to. They eventually gave up on him. There was nothing to prevent him from putting in a new request later.
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"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
I think you misunderstood. What Wellfed wanted to do is use is standard testing CDs, the ones he treats. Math at way he actually has the best chance to hear whatever it is he's testing for. You probably aren't an audiophile, otherwise you wouldn't ask. After months of haggling with the Eductaion Foundation LOL who can blame Wellfed for pulling the plug? Get real. The whole thing is so ridiculous on so many levels. The Amazing Randi setting up audiophiles. His Amazing Randiness sure knew how to bring in the viewers, I'll give him that.
I don't think I misunderstood.
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"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
Everything in Wellfed's system was tweaked. What difference would tweaking the CDs used in the test make? You have to remember, Randi's team were not audiophiles, well, one if them was in Butthole a Surfers but thst doesn't count, they were WORRIED maybe these goddamn audiophiles have some magic shit that will beat the system, which was pretty freaking airtight by then since nobody ever won a freaking dime from those things. Their only mission was to NOT LOSE one million dollars. They were just out snookered by Wellfed in the end IMHO.
Edits: 02/24/15
I just don't have your take on the story.
The test was to determine if one particular product made an audible difference. To use CDs belonging to the participant means they were not controlled. Coating the CDs would introduce another variable, so if there were an audible difference, we would not know what caused it.
Using unaltered CDs ensures that the participant cannot 'snooker' the test, that he cannot cheat on the test. In your own words,
". . . they were WORRIED maybe these goddamn audiophiles have some magic shit that will beat the system, . . . "
It's just good methodology not to depend on the honesty of the test participant, or perhaps, inadvertently introduce another variable in the test.
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"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
You really think Randi is on the up and up, don't you?
I have no reason to suppose otherwise. Randi and JREF have received a number of awards.
Judging from correspondence about the Million Dollar Challenges, they do not suffer fools too gladly, nor those who try to complicate what should be a fairly simple test. And I am sure they love people who can't keep a cool head.
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"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
Nothing is easy when there's a million dollars at stake. It's all a little too close to the witches dunking chair. If you drown you're not a witch. Besides the whole idea that audiophile tweaks and expensive cables are the work of the devil or that audiophiles have paranormal abilities is totally ridiculous on the face of it. You don't really take this Randi Educational Foundation crap seriously do you? I mean, going after that spoon bender dude and dowsers and other paranormal or unexplainable phenomena was one thing, but going after the Intelligent Chip and the Clever Little Clock is quite another. And browbeating poor Wellfed with their whole stupid idea takes the cake. The butthole surfers, indeed. At least Randi was clever enough to know that (1) the Intelligent Chip was the product of the year and (2) figured pretty quickly that Wellfed would be just a little bit of the nervous type, the type Randi loves. Lol
Edits: 02/25/15 02/25/15
He tried to complicate what should have been a pretty simple test, and was upset when he was not allowed to muck it with irrelevancies. As I recall, he could not come up with a firm date and kept changing it, which is highly inconvenient. He also has a temper and often resorts to name calling. Not a good idea with JREF.
MF also has a temper and will resort to name calling.
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"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36074
You have GOT to be shitting me.
"The test will consist of 10 listening sessions of 30 minutes, with a one-hour break after 5 sessions for lunch. Additionally, one fifteen-minute refreshment/bathroom break will be allowed before and after the one-hour break upon request of any participant. T1 will deliver 1 unopened test CD to applicant in listening room. Applicant will open test CD and place in CD transport. T1 will return to selection room and allow applicant 20 minutes to listen. T1 will step into private area. T2 will affix the cardboard squares to the tops of the GSICs, using a coin toss to randomize whether A=1 and I=2 or the reverse, and record the result. T2 will place the GSIC devices with the cardboard squares affixed to them side by side on the table and will cover his recording chart. T1 will step back into the room and use a coin toss to select one of the GSICs. T2 will record which device was selected. T1 will take selected GSIC into listening room. Applicant will instruct T1 to place the GSIC on the CD transport. Applicant will remotely put CD transport in play mode for 5 seconds. T1 will remove GSIC and return it to selection room. Applicant will be allowed to listen to test disc, control disc, and reference disc alternately as necessary to make a determination if an active or inactive GSIC has been used. Applicant will record his result. Applicant will be given 10 minutes to make a determination. If applicant has made a determination earlier than 10 minutes he may request a new session immediately. T1 will take next unopened test CD into listening room, and remove previously used test disc. Operation will repeat until all discs have been tested."
Originally posted by Wellfed
That's funny, because just the opposite is the truth.
No it isn't. A Member here called Gulliver's has offered to finance and spend time setting up a rather simple test that would go someway to establishing if you could hear a difference or not. You are not interested in this test, as far as I am aware there is no other test available to you therefore as I stated the evidence is that you do not wish (or will not allow yourself as I stated it previously) to be tested.
Geez, you guys act like the test is supposed to prove something. These sorts of tests don't actually prove anything one way or the other, ESPECIALLY if the results are inconclusive. Hel-loo! You probably didn't get the memo. Wellfed was wise to hang his star on someone from The Butthole Surfers.
The test was ten trials all of which had to be passed. That is not a simple test as you say. Besides the real test is all the haggling over where to hold the test, etc. No wonder Wellfed got frustrated. If Randi's guys couldn't handle the pressure get out of the kitchen.
At the end of the day who really gives a flying you know what since negative results of blind tests or any tests mean practically nothing, anyway?
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