|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
108.169.2.66
In Reply to: RE: Same tired arguments... posted by Steve O on January 22, 2015 at 12:55:20
FAITH
""ignores the people with experience that arrive at the opposite concensus""
No, - it doesn't IGNORE, - it places them in the proper context, - as true, - as small minority. We can't ignore them, as like many people with "faith" they shout louder in their insecurity and lack of knowledge.
""objective differences aren't obvious and aren't worth discussing""
You mis-quoted me, (why not cut and paste).
OBJECTIVE DIFFERENCES ARE OBVIOUS, and mostly irrelevant.
""Why must this be so?"
????? are you trying to assert that the Nordost Valhalla is the same as the other mentioned? Really? Should I post pictures?
""Overall, pretty unconvincing.""
Only if you're completely outside reason, and foolish
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Follow Ups:
You wrote: """objective differences aren't obvious and aren't worth discussing""
You mis-quoted me, (why not cut and paste).
OBJECTIVE DIFFERENCES ARE OBVIOUS, and mostly irrelevant"
Not a misquote because they're not your words, they're mine. You wrote "Objectively, the differences in different cables are beyond obvious & are not worth discussing." What you quoted of me above is a misinterpretation on my part of your original statement...as in "quantum physics is beyond the comprehension of most laymen". The word "plainly" or similar might have been a better choice.
>
>
>
You wrote: "????? are you trying to assert that the Nordost Valhalla is the same as the other mentioned? Really? Should I post pictures?"
No, I'm not asserting Nordost Valhalla is the same as a River cable. I'm asking why they MUST be sonically different. Assuming the function of a cable is to get an electrical signal representing music from here to there with as little change as possible, good, well designed cables ought to sound the same even if they employ radically different designs. That you think I need to see a pic of them to understand the differences causes me to wonder if what you hear is influenced by what you see.
>
>
>
You wrote: """ignores the people with experience that arrive at the opposite concensus""
No, - it doesn't IGNORE, - it places them in the proper context, - as true, - as small minority. We can't ignore them, as like many people with "faith" they shout louder in their insecurity and lack of knowledge."
How do you arrive at the conclusion "they" are a small minority?
What makes you believe they're insecure and unknowledgeable? Neither of those statements ring true from my experience. Seems like your attempting to bolster your position by diminishing anything that doesn't support it.
>
>
>
You wrote: """Overall, pretty unconvincing.""
Only if you're completely outside reason, and foolish."
No, not at all. You've presented opinion as fact and little that really supports your position other than opinion. Your argument remains unconvincing and the arrogant , condescending tone of this statement doesn't help your case because there's a desperate quality about it.
Later!
""I'm asking why they MUST be sonically different.""
They may not be sonically that much different, - especially if used out of context: like with a Sharp boombox. I never asserted anything about whether they are different or not sonically.
""That you think I need to see a pic of them to understand the differences causes me to wonder if what you hear is influenced by what you see."
You've wasted that sentence, - as mentioned, - not sonic.
""How do you arrive at the conclusion "they" are a small minority?""
Because people who've heard many cables do not assert that position.
""Neither of those statements ring true from my experience"
Would you care to enumerate your experience(s)? Please be specific.
""What makes you believe they're insecure and unknowledgeable?""
When queried, and asked for specifics, we (almost always) find that they haven't done much of any experimentation on their own: and/or applied tests out of context, = performed bad tests, - that set up obvious straw men.
""You've presented opinion as fact""
No, I have not. The only "facts" I've presented are that (outside sonics), there are some very real, physical, [objective] differences in various cables. And, - that when most everyone who conducts good scientific investigations through decent controls, in the proper context, - assert that different cables affect the sonic character of the system.
""Your argument remains unconvincing""
I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, I am not making any universal claims. I am convinced by the evidence that I have, for myself.
My claim is my claim. OTOH, I do gain a measure of confidence by having people with the same, and more, experiences corroborate those.
"and the arrogant"
Me asserting what I hear, and repeating the claims of others?
I don't think so...
IT IS FAR MORE ARROGANT for people to make the untested, inexperienced, and baseless claim that I did not hear a difference.
IT IS FAR MORE ARROGANT for someone to say that they are GOD and claim that I am lying for asserting that I heard something: especially if they were not there, and/or have any experience with my system(s) in my home. Or, - attended the 20 + shows that I've been to, or been to the 20+ homes of friends that I've been to... etc etc. etc.
""because there's a desperate quality about it.""
Likely a mis-interpretation on your part, considering that I have nothing to "prove"
"Later"
Much...
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
There are plenty of people who have tried many types, have even performed tests of various sorts, and claim no material differences.
try it! you know you want to!
can you cite some please?
Please make sure that you list people who have experiences with all different levels of systems.
And of course, you don't mean material differences: can you clarify? You may mean sonic differences; or do you mean significant sonic differences?
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
"The controversy surrounding the claim to audible improvements due to cabling are widely known and the effects of wire are generally reported as insignificant by many sources outside of subjectivist audiophile circles. Numerous engineering experts in various fields of electrical, audio, and loudspeaker engineering have also stated this opinion. Such experts include Dr. Howard Johnson of Signal Consulting Inc., John Dunlavy most recently of Dunlay Audio Labs, and Roger Russell formerly Director of Acoustic Research for McIntosh Laboratory. Each of these gentlemen has spoken out against exaggerated claims of cable effects on audio reproduction in various venues; Mr. Russell, the man behind the McIntosh Loudspeaker Division from its inception in 1967 until 1992, goes as far as actively criticize exotic cable performance claims on the web site he maintains."
try it! you know you want to!
...every person in your citation will be criticized as not involved with current high end SOTA audio and/or being effectively deaf and therefore opinions expressed will be summarily dismissed as not valid and entirely irrelevant to the current cable discussion, esp those of Roger Russell and the speakers he was responsible for while at McIntosh. I also predict that someone will eventually point out that Roger Russell's latest speaker offering, the IDS line source column contains some kind of Cardas cable for internal wiring, a seeming inconsistency with his published views.
Of course, that citation conveniently leaves out incomparably larger portion of people involved with audio at the highest level, who DON'T share views of the few naysayers mentioned there.
However, as I said, it's all irrelevant - the only things that matter are my system, my hearing, my brain.
nt
try it! you know you want to!
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: